Transcript: How Illinois Is Supporting the Blockchain Initiative

Hello and welcome to the Constructor Podcast, the best way to build it. I'm your host, Brittany Campbell Turner, and this is actually a special bonus episode on the Constructor Podcast and actually might be doing this from time to time. These bonus episodes will be related to current events that are happening in Chicago or recent news impacting the built environment. This interview is with Lexi Prodromos and Jennifer Rourke. We will be discussing how Illinois is supporting the blockchain initiative.

The reason why this episode is important and I wanted to make sure to release it today, Friday, April 20th, is this weekend they are participating and the CBC is co-hosting the event with BTC Media. The event is called Distributed Markets. Check the link in the show notes and with that, let's get into the interview. Today we are speaking with Jennifer Rourke and Alexandra, or Lexi Prodromos. They are both with the Chicago Blockchain Center.

Jennifer Rourke is the former Illinois blockchain business liaison and founder at a blockchain startup called Attest. Lexi is the executive director at CBC as well. Both of you, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for having us, Brittany. Yeah, thanks Brittany.

It's great to be here. It's great to actually have two people on the podcast. I think it's been quite a while since I've interviewed two people and people that have worked together. So I'm really excited to talk with both of you about what has been taking place in Illinois. But before we head into that, for the audience's knowledge, I actually partnered with the Chicago Blockchain Center to host an event last month on March 14th.

And it was surrounding around the subject blockchain and construction. So we've definitely been developing a relationship and so far it's really been very beneficial I think for both of us to just kind of surround the subject of blockchain and build awareness in the space. So that's been a great scenario. But the CBC has an event that's coming up next week. I would love, Lexi, if you could tell us what Distributed Markets is all about.

The Distributed Markets Conference, we had the opportunity to partner with BTC Media on the event. They host a series of conferences called Distributed Colon and then for different industries. So they have one Distributed Health, Distributed Trade, and then Distributed Markets, which focuses on convergence of blockchain and financial services specifically. They've had this conference before, but this is the first time that they've held it in Chicago. So they thought it was a unique opportunity seeing all of the energy behind blockchain And then also obviously with our kind of deep history with leading, you know, worldwide leading financial institutions to kind of have this conference where we get to hear from leaders in both the blockchain and financial services spaces, get to talk about where we think the space is going, some of the new things that have been happening.

For example, we're going to have speakers from CME and also the CBOE talking about their Bitcoin futures, for example. So we think it's going to be a really good opportunity to bring out some local voices and also nationally recognized voices in both of these spaces to Chicago. So that's going to be a day long conference on April 23rd. It's Monday, April 23rd held at Navy Pier. And then in the weekend preceding it as well, we've got some pre-conference events.

So we have a blockchain executive workshop. So it's going to be more of a 101 type of event where we really take you through, you know, answering the question, what is blockchain? What's its applicability as a good kind of primer before the conference for those who feel unprepared potentially. And then we're also simultaneously going to be having a 24 hour hackathon. We've got several sponsors for that, including the exchange Kraken and various others.

So that's going to be over the weekend and then Monday's the actual conference. So we're really looking forward to it. It's going to be part of a bunch of larger blockchain events that are going to be happening in Chicago that week, actually. So it's our very own kind of blockchain week with several large scale conferences happening in Chicago around blockchain. So it's just another example of all the energy in the space here in the city.

That is really exciting. I think the energy is definitely gaining here in Illinois. And I think a lot of it is contributed to what you guys have done thus far. But again, before we get there, if we could talk a little bit about Chamber of Digital Commerce, the DC Blockchain Summit. That actually happened, I guess, last month.

And I wanted to just kind of get an update from you guys. How did it go? Was there anything in particular that you learned or contributed at that event that you think is worthwhile to share with the audience here? Yeah, I think I'll maybe take a first stab at this. So the DC Blockchain Summit has been an ongoing annual event for the last three, four years now, I believe.

That's put on by the Chamber of Digital Commerce, probably the leading trade organization in this space, focusing on advocating for legislators and regulators, educating them about blockchain and digital currencies. So their president is Perry Ann Boring. They've got a great organization that's been doing a fantastic job of putting on events like this, trying to develop certain standards in this space, because especially at the federal level, there really is not a lot of consensus as to how blockchain and digital currencies in particular should be treated. A lot of folks from the SEC, the CFTC, various chambers of commerce, congressmen and representatives to speak to this technology and its potential and also what we should look at it from the federal perspective going forward.

So I participated in the summit by helping to organize a hackathon that was sponsored by Discover and various others where we focused on applications of blockchain for regtech and identity, a few other categories. So we put together that hackathon. It was fairly well attended, a bunch of different projects that then were judged and three top winners were decided. They presented at the summit itself. A lot of different voices from startups to federal regulators and various other global luminaries in the space.

I thought it was a terrific event. I keep getting bigger and bigger, co-hosted with Georgetown University School of Business. It's always a great event that I look forward to. Awesome. Jennifer, did you attend as well?

Yes, I did. It was a really wonderful event. I thought it was interesting to watch the evolution of the industry from this particular vantage point. As Lexi said, this organization has been hosting this event for a number of years now. So to be in a position where you can actually see how the participants are changing, watching a really mature crowd that was incredibly diverse in terms of the technology that was represented.

It was really powerful to see that there were startups, there were corporates and major enterprise participants. There were a variety of industries and sectors, as you would expect, represented. But I thought it was very interesting to also see the engagement from the media and to watch the engagement at an incredibly sophisticated level of media, as opposed to just simply some of those that participate in the blockchain space. That was very indicative of the fact that the industry, and in particular this event, has broken through from the niche of just sitting in technology or even more specifically in distributed ledger technology to be something that many people in the industries which are affected by technology are very interested in.

I think that that as a theme was incredibly powerful this year. What a great insight. Let's dig into the details. Lexi, you put together a proposal and approached the Illinois Department of Innovation and Technology in order to figure out how blockchain can work in Illinois. So please tell us that story and then how did that create the Illinois Blockchain Initiative?

If you could just share the story. I'd love to hear the journey. One of the things that I started to do once I got more self-educated in the space as it were when I was first starting out was I started trying to go to various different conferences and see what everyone else was doing. From the startup perspective, I managed to snag a relatively cheap student ticket to consensus in New York. 2016 it was.

That year I got to hear a presentation that was given by the governor of Delaware at the time about their Delaware Blockchain Initiative. I had just finished undergrad. I was a political science major, was doing it pre-law. I was really interested specifically and felt that there was kind of a natural fit with how blockchain could fit into the public sector. So I went in and got connected with the folks at the Department of Innovation and Technology and various others there and told them I think there's a really great opportunity for Illinois to be a leader in this space.

We have lots of raw talent here, a network of elite universities, a deep legacy in financial services, which is one of the larger focuses of blockchain technology, especially at that time and thought why can't we have some kind of a presence here in the state that can be led by creating a light regulatory touch within the state of Illinois. To my happiness, they were extremely receptive. I felt extremely lucky to be working with all of these guys to try to put together the Illinois Blockchain Initiative.

Blockchain had been on their radar as a potential technology, but they hadn't explored it in and of itself for its own initiative at that point in time at least. So we kind of got spun up on various ideas, released an RFI to try to educate various folks within the state of Illinois on the technology and get ideas for the IBI. I was extremely fortunate to be connected with those folks. Jennifer was among them who really saw early on that vision and really worked tirelessly to make it a reality.

Shortly after that, later that year, I got brought on to block. The IBI had really taken off. It's been flourishing ever since and I think is fairly unique in terms of the rest of the states that we're doing and had some successful pilot early on. I'll give the rest to Jennifer. Jennifer, I want to ask you a quick question.

You were amongst the group hearing the proposal and reviewing it. What was your first impression? It was a really interesting time to be part of this organization. Similar to Lexi, I came in with a bit of a grassroots path because my background is in financial services, in banking and trading. And so because of this, I had been pulled into a lot of industry conversations with folks that wanted to understand what the government's position on the technology was.

As they really saw the primary use case about two, two and a half years ago, sitting in FinServe in terms of back office recording and record keeping and then auditing of transactions. So with that in mind, I was pulled into these external conversations and had to ask the question, do we actually have a program going on internally right now? And after asking a couple of folks that question in state government, I was really pleased to be answered. Yes, we do. Who's involved?

Here's when they're meeting next. And with that, had the opportunity to meet Lexi and join the group that had essentially been quietly working behind the scenes to really lay this foundation, this incredibly strong foundation of strategy around what we would do to one, explore and then two, support the technology. So as Lexi said, and you opened the discussion on one of the first steps that we were able to take was to initiate an RFI or a request for information. And in government, this is a major pathway to a couple of things.

First of all, it opens up a procurement opportunity to potentially engage with vendors who would be selling their services to the government. But even before you get to that point, it does something really important. It literally provides us as a recipient with a significant amount of information. So we opened up the RFI and we had over two dozen submissions, which was a significant amount, especially again, this would have been two years ago. Yeah.

So it was a very large success between getting access to the information to inform our position and then allow that to underpin our strategy. After that, we were able to take this information, use it as another component of the diligence that had been running from the beginning, you know, with the group and Lexi. And we were able to confirm that this technology would be able to support a better delivery of the services that government is responsible for, a better, faster and more secure delivery. So with those results in mind, we set about articulating and began to execute the strategy.

We came up with a three-point strategy. We felt that to support the development of the technology in the state of Illinois, we needed to do three things. We needed to provide appropriate governance, which as opposed to positioning ourselves as reactive regulators, we really wanted to make sure that we were informed and educated so that we could play a role of facilitator in terms of crossing industry and crossing silos to provide appropriate horizontal policy guidance. The second thing that we did was we knew we needed to build the ecosystem.

There's an incredible amount of talent as Lexi so rightly articulated. We have some of the top engineering schools in the world located within five square miles of the loop. It's really quite impressive. And even when we start to think about some of the other academic tracks that really support this work, we just start hitting a laundry list, you know, when it comes to some of the things that are happening in supply chain logistics and financial services, etc. So the talent pipeline is profound here in Chicago.

We wanted to make sure that we could support all of the work that was happening at a student level, but also in the private sector on projects and small businesses, really support the commercialization of that. So how do you actually build the ecosystem as opposed to just watching those ones and zeros on the screen? That was an important piece of the puzzle for us. And the last piece was to actually implement the technology into government itself. So we believe so firmly in the promise of this tech to change and enhance the way that we deliver services, then we needed to be exploring it ourselves.

So we felt that the right level of exploration would be proof of concepts. And to that end, we created a pilot or proof of concepts roadmap for the past year that we really focused on. That roadmap had five major use cases. The first was land titles, the second academic transcripts. The third was health provider registries, then energy credit marketplaces, and finally vital records, beginning with a birth certificate, which essentially is the digitalization of a birth certificate.

So as you can see, a very broad approach to really exploring all the various different areas that we believed could be enhanced by the technology, but one that became very important to the work we did. And I think you're even hitting quite a few of the different markets as well with those couple pilots there that you mentioned. And I think how I got mostly aware of it, one meeting Lexi and then two learning about the land title scenario as well, given that I'm close to the real estate space and construction.

So I think that's such a great initiative that IBI has laid out with a three pronged approach, what the state of Illinois is doing to support startups, power startups being enabled and supported. One of the core tenets of the Illinois Blockchain Initiative was to build out the ecosystem and startups are essentially the life's blood of that ecosystem. One of the first things that we did was partner with Lexi and Block and Matt Rosak to create the Chicago Blockchain Center. As Lexi can tell you in more detail, Chicago had been very fortunate to already have the support of an organization initially called the Chicago Bitcoin Center.

And through the evolution of the Chicago Bitcoin Center and recognition that there was a broader support that could be provided to the utility of blockchain and distributed ledger itself, which encompassed cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin, we were able, we being the state of Illinois and the Illinois Blockchain Initiative, we're able to partner with the Chicago Blockchain Center, become founding members of it and really support the relaunch of the center last summer. And it is truly through the Chicago Blockchain Center as the primary mechanism where I do believe that the state of Illinois has been able to affect the most change and provide the most support to the community.

Lexi talked a little bit earlier about some of the programming that we have been able to build together, but to go into a little bit more detail, a few of those events I think is incredibly important because it really identifies the way that we have taken a very, very nuanced approach to providing bespoke support for the very particular segments of the community. For example, we understand that engineers and developers have very different needs in terms of the programming and education that they require, as opposed to folks that are looking to understand application at an enterprise or business level.

With that in mind, we went out and we pulled in one of the top cryptographers in the world, a gentleman named Professor Andrew Miller, who currently resides at University of Illinois Urbana Champaign. And we were able to work with him to provide a two-day smart contract coding boot camp. This was a perfect event to really articulate the strategy that the Chicago Blockchain Center and the Illinois Blockchain Initiative came together to create because we very purposefully, very much by design, worked with UIUC and also DePaul to make sure that we had cross-university collaboration.

So we brought in our professor from UIUC and we were fortunate to work with DePaul as the venue host. Throughout those two days, DePaul actually had heads of their various schools come and speak to this group to talk about how those particular deans valued this technology and saw the way in which this technology would be blending with the studies that they provide. Furthermore, in that same spirit of bringing different parts of the community together in various particular ways, we were able to work very hard to ensure the participants who were eligible for the course came with coding background so that they would be able to participate to this very deep degree that we knew they would be required to.

But furthermore, we wanted to ensure that we could use this as a talent exchange opportunity. So we put half of the class in as students from rather the various universities in Chicago and then the other half of the classroom were professionals. And we actually had a sizable amount of those professionals coming to us as C-suite level participants. So with that, we filled our tables mixing CTOs and engineering students together. And we were really excited about the way that there could be talent development opportunities.

I think what you guys done to partner together and really build the capability and skill set of our local universities, the students who are in engineering and programming. And then combining that with the C-level executives, I think that's just really profound in the strategy that you guys approached this with. I really would love to know a little bit more about some of the additional events and why you guys approached rolling out the events in the way that you did as well. One of the goals that we had for the Chicago Blockchain Center, additionally, I think Jennifer gave a great overview of some of our larger events that have been fairly well received, is that we're really trying to be a resource for the community.

So when we went into this thought that it was really unique to have this kind of public-private partnership that hadn't really done before to our knowledge, at least from a state and private perspective. What we really wanted to do was provide that public sector resource to some of the startups who were interested in getting their companies off the ground and understanding what are our risks going into this. But also what we recognized was that there was a lot of energy within Chicago and within Illinois. And what we really wanted to do was try to be that connective tissue and really try to help leverage our networks to try to help these other startups to really get going.

Additionally, what we wanted to do was be a strong educational resource for the community. So what that entailed is that most of our events and meetups would have kind of a lecture style where we would have speakers come in and varying from the very kind of one-on-one topics all the way to topics that would be of interest to folks who had been in the space for a while but wanted more of a deeper dive or to hear more about the specifics of a certain technology. So we supported Bitcoin and Open Blockchain Meetup, which had been ongoing long before the CBC started the Chicago Ethereum Meetup and helped kind of garner those audiences as well.

For those events, we've spoken and tried to educate on various industry-specific events. So the blockchain and construction event is a great example of that that we put together, Brittany. We also have the Chicago Blockchain Real Estate Collective, various other kind of industry-specific focuses. So what we were just trying to do was listen to what the community needed, what they wanted to hear, and then tried to provide that central location for those gatherings to just try and help connect the various disparate parties in the community that were as passionate as we are about this space.

At this point, sort of get your opinions about what the new laws in Wyoming and Arizona, basically how they're impacting or potentially impacting Illinois. I think probably either of you will give a better explanation as to what the laws are dictating thus far. But from Arizona's perspective, Arizona corporations, they can now hold and share data on blockchain following the signing of a new legislation into law by Arizona state governor. And then Wyoming, the government officials, they are allowing for this utility token bill to influence them.

So could you dig into what those laws really allow people to do and then what that might mean for Illinois? I'll start us off, Lexi, and I'm sure you do have a lot of thoughts on this as well. I think it's important to take a little step back from Arizona, Wyoming, actually begin about two and a half years ago with the first state entrant into this space, which was Delaware. To just incorporate a little bit of a very recent history lesson, Delaware was the first state that actually passed any legislation on blockchain or distributed ledger technology.

And they did so to essentially say that signatures that are recorded on blockchains and smart contracts will be recognized as legal documents. So they really kick things into high gear with that articulation of recognizing a different form, a digital form of documentation as being legally valid. About a year or so after that, then Arizona went to do this, a very similar thing again, the recognition of digital signatures and smart contracts and items that are recorded on this technology being legally recognized and also written and stored as another component of this.

So written into the ledger documents that are stored on the ledger for ledgers, which have that capacity to store documents. Those now are legally recognized. Following Arizona, then Wyoming went and really took it a step further just recently. So there have been a series of bills that have been turned into laws over the course of the past few months in Wyoming. And it's very interesting because they have taken a much more specific approach.

And instead of just focusing on a more general articulation that blockchain technology is going to be recognized as legal, they have in particular exempted tokens from security regulations. And then they recognize the gains that you make from cryptocurrency as property, which is similar to the IRS. However, they then go a step further to exempt those gains as property from property tax. There's a lot of things in play here. And what I think is really interesting is to look again at the maturization of these laws.

So we started very broadly just saying that we want to recognize that items that are recorded and stored on the blockchain are legal. And now we're starting to get more specific to think about implications to these new types of assets that have been able to be formed because of this technology, such as tokens, and really think through some of the tax implications of these tokens. Something that I think is really important as we do take a step back from looking at a couple of the examples of what these states are doing around us is to speak in a few more broad strokes about what this means and what it doesn't mean.

So when we think of how states and the federal government are regulated, we're a bifurcated system where each state is regulated by the state financial regulators. And then furthermore, all of the states are regulated by the IRS, the SEC, the CFTC, and FinCEN. All of these different regulators have very different approaches to this technology. The IRS views it as property. The SEC views it as a security.

The CFTC views it as a commodity. And FinCEN views it as money. And so what's important for us to think about right now is that there isn't continuity to regulation because of the incredibly nascent stage that this technology is currently in. And with that, we're going to see a lot of ideas that come about that may make sense and some that do not make sense. And it's going to be a very interesting time, I think, over the course of the next year to year and a half to see which of these ideas have staying power, which of these laws actually do make sense, and which of these actually are not quite right for the technology or the time.

Jennifer gave a great summary of the state within the United States as far as regulation goes. What I would really try to add to that is that much of the energy and interest in the space from the regulatory, the federal regulatory perspective, has kind of started to intensify with ICO craze that we saw really kick into high gear last year. Prior to that, it had been mostly up to the states and their various initiatives to kind of try to take matters into their own hands, particularly with regards to digital currency and how to regulate that.

But the SEC in particular started to speak up much more when there were certain security tokens as opposed to utility tokens, which are basically a distinction that needed to be made about these new tokens that were technically fairly easy to create, but were being essentially acting as securities. The SEC needed to step in to draw and kind of make some clarity there. We've seen much more attention in this from the federal regulators than we have in years past, where most of the global legislation, the United States frankly, had been kind of lagging behind.

There'd been much more activity from places like Australia, the EU, the UK. Things have kind of started ramping up here. But just like Jennifer was saying, just to echo that, there still exists a lot of vagaries and ambiguity and a lack of clarity. Cryptocurrency users who have to file their taxes every year, in particular, I know we're just passing a tax season now. It's still just a nightmare because as Jennifer was mentioning, the IRS views digital currencies as property.

And so every transaction and purchase that is made is recorded as capital gains tax. So it's just there's still a lot of work to be done. But I'm confident that one of the good things to come out of the recent thrusting of Bitcoin and blockchain into the mainstream, more attention has been given this foundational technology and really how to regulate it. There's still a lot of work to be done. The Chamber of Digital Commerce and other groups like it have been working tirelessly and creating things like the Token Alliance, which is trying to establish some sort of standards for this space, various others.

It's an exciting time for sure. But just like Jennifer was saying, because the technology is still so nascent, there's still a lot of ambiguity. It's really a lot to get your head wrapped around, especially since how I've been researching blockchain thus far from a legislative perspective. I think there is a lot of concern. I do want to just ask like sort of my last question, like what are the next steps for IBI and CBC?

Yeah, why don't I take IBI and Lexi, you can talk about some of the great stuff that you're doing at CBC. As mentioned before, I have moved on to a new project. When I was with the Illinois Blockchain Initiative, we really focused on how we could make all of the learnings that we acquired in the course of the two years when I was there very permanent. We want to ensure that the Illinois Blockchain Initiative is not at risk in terms of the great work that it does, regardless of who is leading the administration or who is leading the initiative.

So to that end, there's a great foundation in place for the team to continue supporting specific events in partnership with the Chicago Blockchain Center, and then to really use the findings from the Illinois Task Force report as a roadmap to continue implementing some of the change that could be beneficial to the industry. The Illinois Task Force came together about nine months ago now. It was a resolution from the state legislature that requested a group of individuals that ended up being composed of many of the Illinois Blockchain Initiative's participants who brought their subject matter expertise to the task force.

The task force was requested to actually explore the technology and then to identify what changes to legislation needed to be made to continue supporting distributed ledger technology. What the task force found was that, broadly, there are not any particular major speed bumps to supporting the technology because in many parts of legislation, you don't actually need to specifically write in the new mechanism that you would like to support. So for example, and this does go back to the earlier conversation we were having about broadly states articulating that they would explicitly support distributed ledger technology and smart contracts, unless there is something written into your state legislation that says your state does not support this technology and will not support it, or rather they require some of the antiquated mechanisms of the transmission of information and recording of information such as wet signatures and hard copies.

Unless that's explicitly written into your state's requirements, you don't have to change that. That was a really wonderful result of the work that we did when we went through the laws and identified what would need to be done to further support this, that there were pieces of legislation that do need to be changed to remove the requirement of wet signatures and hard copy document storage. But outside of that, we actually do not have any significant barriers to continue supporting the technology at a state level. And so with that being said, the Illinois Blockchain Initiative is incredibly well poised to continue leveraging the strong relationships that they have, in particular with the Chicago Blockchain Center, to do the work that they've been doing to support the tech going forward.

With the CBC, we've been around almost three quarters of a year now since kind of relaunching in June of last year. Our team, I think we've done a pretty decent job of putting together some of these regularly occurring and larger events, kind of like distributed markets next Monday. We're going to be continuing in that effort. What we'd really like to focus on for the remainder of the year at the very least is continuing to try to help grow and sustain the student developer, professional developer community.

Since we think that the paucity of competent developers in this space is still a problem that exists, we want to continue to develop some educational materials that the CBC has been providing. So one of these that we've been working on is the CBC Manual of Style Guide. This is an effort that we felt was necessary. What it's trying to do is articulate to the broader community some of the various conventions in terms of how this space and Bitcoin and distributed ledger and blockchain technology are talked about in the media.

There still isn't consensus as to when is Bitcoin with the capital B or lowercase b used? What are some of the distinctions in the tickers for various popular cryptocurrencies? Is blockchain one word or two words? Someone was asking about that yesterday. So this has been another community-led effort.

We've got the Google Doc open at this point, still taking comments for it. We've had people from various larger blockchain periodicals that have commented in it. Some quote unquote Bitcoin OGs have been in there to various individual entrepreneurs and such. So we've been trying to do things like that. We've got various other materials sort of in that vein, which we're going to be developing in a more serious way as the year goes on.

And then additionally, we're going to be flushing out what our incubator program is going to look like since that was the original vision for the Chicago Bitcoin Center when Matthew Rozak founded it almost three years ago now. So that's going to be where we're going to be rolling out some more information on that. The rest of the year goes on and to just continue in a perhaps more formalized way to really help the community. Wow. A lot to look forward to.

So with that, where can people find out more about you and what you are up to? If anyone has any interest to learn more about the work that the state of Illinois did, especially around those pilots, there's a really great website I want to direct you to check out. It is illinoisblockchain.tech. And you can see everything that the IBI has been up to. If you are interested to follow me, I am on Twitter at jmorork.

That's J-M-O-R-O-U-R-K-E-0-4. Chicago blockchain handle is shy blockchain. So that's C-H-I and then blockchain all together, one word, no underscores. And then if you want to find me on Twitter as well, my name, but there's an underscore between Lexi and for Dromos. Our website is chicagoblockchain.org.

And if you have any questions, you can feel free to email me personally at Lexi, L-E-X-Y at chicagoblockchain.org. And hopefully I will be able to answer some of your questions. And I will share that also in the show notes for you guys. Thank you guys so much. Yeah.

Thanks for having us. Thank you so much, Brittany. It's been a pleasure. It's always great talking to you. I hope you guys enjoyed this bonus episode with Lexi and Jennifer.

You should definitely check out Distributed Markets, the event that's happening this weekend and the main event All Day Monday. So I'll be including the link in the show notes for you to sign up there while they're still spot open. We will still be sharing our regularly scheduled episode with Michael DeLacy, principal and co-founder at Microdesk next week. So I look forward to sharing that with you guys on Tuesday. Thanks for listening and have a great weekend.