Transcript: Microgrid: Creating Resiliency for Cities and Establishing a New Energy Marketplace

One thing I can see for sure is utility companies are more and more today wanted to embrace all those energy paradigm changes. Utility companies' mentality used to be, okay, you do what you wanted to do, and my major task was try to distribute power to where the power needs. And nowadays, especially the progressive ones, utility companies really coming on board and saying rather than I'm going to sit there, I wanted to jump onto the bandwagon as well, because this is not going to be a supply chain one direction anymore.

It's going to be bidirectional power flow from now on, looking into technologies, solutions or systems like microgrid and blockchain. If you looked at it, the New York Rev program challenged all the New York utility service and saying, hey, Mr. Utility, look at your traditional business model. It may not fit for today's energy paradigm change. What are the ways you could look and come up with new business models in order to promote all those outside generation assets and also accommodate all those desire from the consumer and consumer?

We initially looked at a blockchain, might be able to serve that purpose. What the PSC called is Distribution Service Provider Platform, DSPP. We're still in the exploration stage, but the potential is there. Applications utility can adapt the blockchain in order to benefit the utility and further benefit the customers they serve. Hello, and welcome to the Constructor Podcast, the best way to build it.

We're going to talk about the construction project. I'm your host, Brittany Campbell-Turner, and this podcast is dedicated to helping property owners have certainty in their decisions about the construction project. We talk about fostering trusting relationships, helping you to understand how to lower risk, be under budget and on schedule, and most importantly, exceed your end user's desires. Last week, we spoke with Thomas Cox, who is a lean leadership coach and practitioner who found himself really interested in blockchain. He has focused his efforts in the governance aspect of blockchain because of the influence it has in relationships, resources, and collaboration.

Ironically, he actually ran for governor and he has a unique view on leadership, lean, and blockchain. He brings experience in these three areas and he sees the intersection of these components working together so that an organizational culture can be created and sustained. So if you haven't listened to that episode yet, check it out at constructor.com slash ep76. In today's episode, we are speaking with Maggie Clout, business development manager at Siemens. She is the lead business developer for 17 Project Winds of the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority NY Prize Community Microgrid Program.

In our talk today, we discuss a pilot project where Siemens worked with a company, LO3, to transact, buy, and sell solar energy between neighbors on a blockchain. So from a real estate perspective, using a microgrid platform has the ability to show transparency in the information about how much energy you use, how much is being sold, and what the financial benefits are. It actually opens up a new door for real estate owners to generate income from unused electricity or heat generation that typically services their portfolio. So with that, let's get into the interview.

We are interviewing Maggie Clout, business development manager at Siemens. She is lead business developer for 17 Project Winds of New York State Energy Research and Development Authority, New York Prize Community Microgrid Program, key team member for New York Prize Microgrid Feasibility Studies, and other high-profile microgrid projects. And she has presented and moderated various known microgrid conferences and events as a subject matter expert to support the establishment of Siemens thought leadership positions. I'm really excited to have you on to talk about microgrid and what it's all about.

Now the first thing that I've been hearing about probably over the past six months is the LO3 Energy pilot. So you guys have worked with LO3 Energy where Lawrence Orsini is the founder and CEO. And you started your relationship with them back in 2015 where Brooklyn Microgrid was using blockchain to transact electrons or energy from solar panels to different neighbors in the nearby vicinity. Could you tell us how did you start that pilot with LO3 and what that looked like? Sure, absolutely.

I actually got to know Lawrence back in late 2014. That was part of the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority Community Microgrid Program. So we got to know each other through that program as Lawrence back then was looking for a partner to come on board to support them on Brooklyn Microgrid. As you know, Siemens is very active in the microgrid marketplace and we not only support assets but also have a sophisticated automation and control platform to manage those assets and tie in with the demand side, which is the load management side of the microgrid.

Maggie, really quick, I just want to baseline because not all of my audience may know what a microgrid is. Absolutely. So the definition of the microgrid is not really that clear in the marketplace to be honest. However, at least everybody has a consensus. Here are the three major microgrid components.

If we're talking microgrid and you've got to have some onsite generation assets existing there, be it a combined heat and power generator, solar, battery, and all this are on the supply side. Basically, those are assets who can generate electricity or heat, which is thermal energy. And then you move to the demand side, which you always have a load in order to serve. And that could be a couple of buildings, that could be your industrial manufacturing load or steam, process steam you have to support. So you always have a load at the other end.

Now you have a scale. One side is supply, the other side is demand. And then because it is a scale, you have to balance the two sides and you need a control system actually sit on the top to orchestrate how the supply side is going to meet the demand side. That is how you work as a system yourself. Most of the microgrid actually have the connection between the microgrid itself and the utility.

So be it any utility service provider who normally you buy power from, and then that is the interconnecting point you have with the utility. And by having a microgrid and also coupled with onsite generation assets and the control platform, this little system can island itself, meaning be disconnected from the utility distribution network and operate on its own. So that is a microgrid fundamental definition. You have to have those three major components and be able to isolate yourself from the commercial power grid and operate on your own.

Thank you so much for that brief explanation. I think that provides a lot more clarity. So please continue to tell us about sort of the beginnings of your relationship with LO3. So we actually worked on Brooklyn Microgrid Project Phase 1. We helped Lauren's team put together a feasibility study application.

Unfortunately, that wasn't selected by NYSERDA. However, our relationship continued. We looked into LO3 more and more, not only just from the microgrid perspective, but also blockchain, because they are blockchain developers as well. Using blockchain, as you see nowadays, a utility is really challenged by putting forward their game plan to come up with innovative business models in order to help promote and also accommodate all the onsite generation assets springing around in their distribution network. Traditionally, when you looked at the energy supply chain, it's always the energy is going to be generated in the central power plant somewhere 200 miles away and through the transmission and distribution, and then get down to where the energy electricity is going to be consumed, like you and I, residential customers or commercial and industrial customers.

Not anymore. The paradigm has changed significantly. When you looked at it, not only the central power plant exists, but also there is onsite generation assets exist at consumer or commercial and industrial customers' backyards. And also there is distributed energy projects sitting in higher ed universities or hospitals. So there is a lot of bidirectional power flow, and utility is very challenged nowadays to find a right business model, plural, and to accommodate those changes and shift.

So blockchain, we don't know the answer. We don't have the magic wand, could potentially be one of the platforms can be utilized by utility to manage those distributed generation assets. So while we continue those talks and communications with LO3, Siemens is really looking for obviously innovative technologies and what are the innovative technologies to enhance our current technology portfolio or enable us to better serve our customer, which utility is one of the key customers we service. That's how we got started and then really looking into, can we do some demonstration project?

Does that make sense for us to team us together between Siemens and LO3 to continuously explore what are the potential of blockchain could bring onto not only Siemens business, but enable Siemens to better serve our clients. But you guys were able to embark on a pilot. What I understand, it seems like there's 60 community members that are using the microgrid that LO3 has set up in Brooklyn right now. Correct, Brittany. So we currently have 60 more or less members participating in Brooklyn microgrid.

Those members are consumers and prosumers. So consumers, literally you only consume. You buy power and just like I don't have any solar roofs in my house, so I just buy power from my utility. Presumers on the other hand, would have some self generation. In this case, they are all residential customers.

So those prosumers will have PV arrays and put it on their roof and they have a couple of kilowatts generated. Within the microgrid right now, within the setup after the phase one demonstration project, those 60 also community members, what they're doing is they're able to use blockchain, which is a transactive grid platform, and to be able to transact, buy and sell power among themselves. So how it works in a nutshell, very high level is Brittany, if you are the prosumer, quote unquote, who has PV arrays on top of your roof, if you go to Caribbean for vacation, then I, Maggie, would possibly buy power from you.

You put a price you wanted to sell and then if that price actually works for me and I will accept that price and then the smart contract will give you the credit and then will debit my account. So that is how the transaction work in a very high level. However, because of the utility distribution framework and we're still using Con Ed, which is the utility service provider, owns all the distribution lines, we're still using Con Ed utility infrastructure for those transactions and there is really not any electron transfer.

So literally there is no electrons shifted from your roof to my house. However, the financial transaction actually happened. So you definitely got certain dollar amount by selling your PV and then I got it to pay you because I accept your contract. Okay, so you may not actually be getting energy specifically distributed from my solar panel, but the transaction takes place between you and I because we're the ones who set up the transaction on the blockchain. Correct.

That's a very good statement. Yes. That's very interesting. So that alone would promote more people to do it, especially if they understand that there is a potential for them to generate income that way. Absolutely.

And the platform is really give a lot of data transparency for individuals who is part of the Brooklyn microgrid. Have smart device type and you can monitor what is your energy usage, how much you sold or how much you bought and what are the financial benefits you were able to get from selling energy to your neighbors. For example, that is excellent. I think that's really fascinating. And I wanted to just kind of ask you a little bit about what does this pilot do for your relationship with LL three?

What's next? What's in the future? LL three is I would have put them as one of the front runners with regards to blockchain specific application inside energy domain. A lot of people work on a blockchain, you know, in financing or Bitcoin, but in the energy trading transaction of electron Siemens is really see a potential of those type of use case scenarios. Because as what I mentioned before, we're really looking for different innovative platforms to enhance our product portfolio in order to better serve our customer and being utilities.

One of the segments we're targeting and then municipalities and all those people directly related how the energy is going to be managed right now from the grid and data analytics as well as from the accommodating prosumer and consumers desire. Because more and more people has the capability to produce power and meanwhile they consume power. So the relationship is not just a one way street. You buy power from your utility. That's it.

Sometimes you produce as well. So the relationship I think with LL three will be continue from Siemens side. We actually announced a further investment into LL three to continue the research and development we have worked on in the pilot project. We're currently talking about phase two as well. So there is going to be a continuous relationship between the two companies working continuously on Brooklyn microgrid and also other business cases and projects around the world.

I saw the press release. I think that LL three they posted on their website to say that you guys are Siemens is further investing into trying to figure out what experiences can they have with grid management and more data analytics, complementary technology portfolio, facilitating the integration of blockchain into this state of the art power grids. So I saw that fact that you guys are not limiting it to just one location. I think that is going to develop a number of good case studies. Absolutely.

And because we are working with LL three in a couple of European countries and some of the Pacific continent countries and all those are kind of like a perfect storm because you needed to have initiatives from commission, which is public utility commission, normally a different words within different states or country. But that's the commission who organize all the utilities or the regional ISOs, which owns all the transmission and distribution network. Those stakeholders needs to come on board, you know, be more progressive rather than a good old boy mentality.

And I think overall, the constructor podcast talks about more progressive mentality, being more open minded in how to approach things from a process and governance perspective. But you need buy in from all the different stakeholders. And I think that's absolutely a great way to address it. I do want to ask you a little bit more about the platform that Siemens is really spearheading to conduct transactions could be considered as a virtual power plant, if you will. So could you tell us about what that looks like and how that would enable transactions in the future?

Virtual power plan, if you think about it, Brittany is really without a power plant. But with the technology platform, you are able to either push power out to the grid or reduce your power consumption. So two ways you push the power out to the grid. And literally, it's a power plant who can supply the demand, especially peak demand. If you reduce your own energy consumption, you literally put a megawatt of the grid.

Basically, instead of you're using 40 megawatts, which is the measure, and then you reduce by half. And that is 20 megawatts gain from the utility side to supply somebody else during the peak time. We have a lot of sophisticated control schemes, not only from demand response perspective, But also just talking about distributed energy project. For example, if you are a university and you own on-site generation, like 40 megawatts assets on your campus, and then there is a peak demand comes now, the distribution grid is rather congested.

So we can either respond as a demand response, we might have some non-essential or non-critical loads which can be shut down, which what we call a shed load. We can be shed, powered off for a certain time period in order to reduce our own consumption. Or this 40 megawatts, on a typical day, the 40 megawatts will be consumed within the campus, right? All the buildings will be supplied by this 40 megawatt power generated on the site. But on that peak day, you can just imagine, because you have the capability of this 40 megawatts sitting on campus, you might be able to sell at a very higher rate, half of it or 5 megawatts or 10 megawatts into utility distribution network and be able to generate a whole lot of revenue than you just supply yourself.

So there is a trade-off and the economic benefit to enable those people, like college or hospital or manufacturer owns those generation assets, to be able to play around with their generation assets, be able to leverage their generation assets, either support their resiliency, if the grid is off, they can island themselves to still provide a continuous power to their critical loads or generate additional revenue for them. So if you're doing the generating additional revenue and sell your onsite generation assets, a portion of it, into the grid and either support peak demand or frequency regulation, being a spinning reserve.

So those things are virtual power plant at a great benefit to the utility. That's basically you're supporting the grid. I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around the virtual side of it. If you're analyzing what this looks like when you're trying to understand the generation that comes from the educational institution, then what you're doing is you're seeing that there is a contribution from them and you're able to manage that virtually. Is that the perspective?

So the virtually is more or less to utility that power plant does not exist. For example, if it is a hospital, you have a 10 megawatt load, which is basically normally you buy 10 megawatts from the utility, right? Whomever supplies your normal power. But during a peak demand or peak event and utility is short power, a utility might call the hospital and say, hey, do you have any non-essential loads you can shed? That could be dining hall, for example.

I mean, obviously not the ER when, but the dining hall. And that's like a two megawatt maybe. If you turn all the power off on the dining hall, now suddenly you only need eight megawatt power instead of 10 originally. So this two megawatt gain to the utility is actually virtually no power plant actually generated a two megawatt power. But because you have a demand response measure, you can do that.

And that way, utility is actually gained two megawatt. Those are virtual power plant. And also, if you are able to sell some of your generation assets, that assets doesn't really owned by the utility. It's not utilities power plant. They can't really dispatch.

It's only because you have advanced control platforms and all this control schemes work in a very seamless way, you probably can push another five megawatt power to sell back to the utility, not only make some money, but help them during the sticky point. And that five megawatt to them is a virtual power plant as well. That makes sense now to me. So the virtual aspect is, summarize my understanding, the virtual aspect is we simply don't have a power plant like a nuclear coal. What's taking place is we have institution or a healthcare company, a hospital that is generating energy, whether it's through geothermal or solar or some renewable energy source or not.

They're producing energy, right? Could be cogeneration. They're doing this and they have extra energy that they're no longer going to be using within their facility. And it is now made available to send back through the distribution line, through the distribution utility and sold back to those who may be needing it. Right.

So that puts us in a really interesting perspective when we think about corporate real estate. I always like to put things in perspective from the owner operator standpoint, whoever is owning the hospital or the educational campus or things like that. There's a perspective that you can have even like in a smaller workplace setting where you're leasing a couple of floors out of a building. So I wanted to kind of investigate and unpack this idea with you on how leasing agreements can potentially be put together in order to take advantage of microgrids.

I'm going to give you an example, Brittany. We are trying to work with a couple of high rise owners and operators in New York City. And their scenario is those high rise, what they call it a co-op, which is basically penthouse luxury apartment. And they do have combined heat power generation. Obviously, you need a domestic hot water for your shower and they have a little turbine and they generate electricity on site.

And they're looking into either participate in New York ISO, which is the distribution network. If I have excessive power, can I do demand response and be able to generate additional revenue that will in return benefit the entire member of that co-op because all the apartment people formed a cooperation and then to manage that. That would be one thing you can look at. It is definitely something in those type of setups for those corporate real estate professionals is considering putting to some onsite generation and manage that to supply your electrical and thermal needs within whatever the building you might own and operate instead of solely or 100% buy from the external sources.

It could be a utility or a thermal provider because some utility do provide both electrical and thermal. Right. They distribute steam as well. So that would be one thing. The other thing is the resiliency side.

In my mind, I have this magazine cover of the year. I think some gentlemen actually took a shot when Superstorm Sandy, I believe, hit in New York City. The entire Metro region is dark. The only thing was lit up is this co-op city, which is a microgrid. There's high rises, nursing homes, primary schools like elementary schools.

And those are the areas and those are the Siemens project. We have two gas turbines, one steam turbine, and our control systems are there as well. So those things is a resiliency aspect. Considering one high rise, you have perhaps a UPS to supply emergency power in the exit row. People are climbing down from 100 floors up.

All your lights need to be on. That's life safety loads. So it's most likely is going to be powered by something like a UPS. But if you have an on-site generation of assets, even your utility is out because of an ice storm, because of a flooding or whatever the reason, the entire neighborhood is gone. If you have assets sitting there in the basement, you could very well power your building critical such as elevator, such as fire alarm or intercom to inform people get out of the way or stay there in the safe areas.

Those things can be powered by those on-site generation assets. And that is a huge resiliency play for everybody. That's big. And one of the things why NYSERDA is doing this, one of the hot zones they identified is the Metro area. Because of all those high rises or buildings and because of highly dense populated facilities and they needed to get people out or inform people, they needed to have some resiliency building in.

And that is definitely one of the drivers for us to look into those. It can be small, but if you have a couple of facilities which are close to each other, you can form a network and using one facility's on-site generation possibly to support the other couple of blocks away. I think if I'm trying to put my feet into those people's shoes, that's what I would have started to look into those or is there a need. I'm not saying every building is going to need it, but some building probably is going to fit in this category and might be an interesting area to look into.

And I was going to touch base with you on the city perspective, which you clearly laid out here from the resiliency standpoint. But I think even from the standpoint of, like you said, any disaster, even servers, just maintaining your servers. I think there are a lot of companies who will have their UPS generation in order to just be able to support their infrastructure if there's any electrical shutdown. I think even from that standpoint, to have that on-site asset generator, I think that would be hugely valuable from even that standpoint.

But in the event that you're not needing that, then you can also use that as a revenue generator. Absolutely. That's what we call it, monetized idle assets. That's a very good point, Brittany, you actually brought up is on-site generation is not only just a purpose of supporting your own loads. You draw a line around a university campus or medical center surroundings.

And then obviously by having certain assets located right there, you can provide a significant resiliency support. But during the normal blue sky days, which nothing happens, everything was fine and dandy. Can I do further? Can I utilize all those idle assets, either sell it or support somebody else in order to make me some more money? So that is the other thing we really looking into when we do the project and that's all the financial aspect, try to make the business case more attractive.

So let's hop back into cities. I wanted to find out if Siemens is really positioning themselves to support just really dense populations. I know you mentioned New York a couple of times, but I'm just curious as to whether there's a perspective on creating that resiliency from a population standpoint and even economic standpoint for cities who may have a harder time sort of responding just because of simply their dense populations. My geographic focus is actually North America, New York and Canada. However, Siemens does involve with a lot of cities from the resiliency perspective around the world.

RC100, which is a hundred resilient cities, we actually formed a partnership, a hundred cities around the world. When you talk about resiliency, that's every aspect from transportation, mobilization and digitalization and also energy. You can't do anything without power. So all those are looking into that. And we even inside Siemens, we have a city of competency group.

So those gentlemen and ladies within that group, what they're so tasked is looking and working with cities from infrastructure development, mobility, and also energy like what we do to support cities, improve their resiliency and improve their city infrastructure to be able to fight or sustain those adverse, either weather or catastrophic disasters just to help them better prepare. It comes down to the simplistic things, right? Like security and privacy and just lifestyle, right? How do you improve the lifestyle at a simplistic level? How do you make sure that education is provided to everyone?

Like electricity, providing that infrastructure even for the towers that are going to provide cell service, right? What we're doing is really being the technology partner and we're interested in helping the city from the intelligent and resilient infrastructure. That way the city would have the capability to reduce their operational cost, increase the capacity because more and more people live there and also lower energy consumptions, right? Whether leveraging demand response or renewable energies and improve just overall quality of life. I think that's a great undertaking.

Any company who's willing to put themselves on the line to really contribute to cities in that way, I think is a great effort. I wanted to talk about utilities. As you mentioned, different ways that utilities are responding to the microgrid capability. And I really wanted to know how blockchain is really changing the energy sector. I understand you guys are working with different distribution companies around the U.S.

and I just wanted to get your perspective on what that looks like in the future. I wish I had a uniformal answer for you. One thing I can see for sure is utility companies are more and more today looking on the front line, wanting to embrace all those energy paradigm changes. Utility companies' mentality used to be, okay, you do what you wanted to do. And my major task as what I was held accountable is try to distribute power to where the power needs.

And nowadays, especially the progressive ones, utility companies are really coming on board and saying, rather than I'm going to sit there, I want to jump onto the bandwagon as well. Because this is not going to be a supply chain one direction anymore. It's going to be a bidirectional power flow from now on. So there is always going to be some outside generation sitting at the distribution network. How am I going to react to better myself in order to better serve my customer and also be innovative and come up with new business models in order to accommodate all those changes?

Because oftentimes when I talk to my utility customers and they would say, we would have wanted to look into a microgrid because we wanted to understand the impact on our stability of our distribution grid. We also wanted to know what would be the best to say to our customer if we got a request from them, they want a microgrid. So a couple of things and really put a utility onto the front line looking into technologies or solutions or systems like microgrid and blockchain. So one thing, if you looked at the New York Rev program, reforming energy vision.

So the New York Rev program is particularly challenged all the New York utility service provider, ComEd and National Grid, Orange Reckland, Central Hudson. I probably forgot another few. And they were challenged by New York Public Service Commission, PSC, and saying, hey, Mr. Utility, look at your traditional business model. It may not fit for today's energy paradigm change.

So what are the ways you could look potentially and come up with new business models in order to promote all those onsite generation assets and also accommodate all those desires from the consumer and consumers. So that's how we initially looked at a blockchain. We thought about it. Blockchain might be able to serve that purpose. And what the PSC called is Distribution Service Provider Platform, DSPP.

We're still in the exploration stage, but the potential is there. We actually, Siemens is currently working with a few clients from the utility side is to further assess what are the applications utility can adapt the blockchain in order to benefit the utility and further benefit the customers they serve. So those things are really coming more and more compared to, I would say, 2014. I have not heard any utilities back then, but the project I got involved is already couple utilities are looking for blockchain, Transactive Energy.

Well, I like to hear that. And I really want to know if nationwide this is something that's actually being considered. It's probably just a couple right now. And as you know, as more and more people build the awareness about what blockchain is able to do, even just from a tokenization standpoint and creating sort of a different marketplace, I think that they'll understand the potential. But it's companies like you, like Siemens, that go ahead and partner with companies to start investigating what the options are and testing and even working with LL3 and just kind of taking the time and effort and investing what's required to learn about what the possibilities are that's going to get more and more utilities to even start thinking along these lines.

We're not only just involved with LL3, we're involved with other blockchain developers as well. We recently just announced another partnership, I think in the UK. This is not my project, so I cannot provide a whole lot of detail. I think that was with another blockchain developer. I'm not so sure about the name, but you see the trend is, you know, we as a company from Siemens side, what we're looking into is we're not sitting at our rear end just to say, hey, we have a comprehensive portfolio and be able to support whatever you need, right?

We are continuously as a company looking for innovative technology platforms to enhance our current offering to better serve our customer. And that is how initially we invested on the little pilot project and then we further invested into LL3. And we're also working with other blockchain developers on some other projects internationally because it's different business case or use case scenarios. So those things really highlight our innovative way of continuously improving ourselves as a company. First of all, I want to thank you, Maggie.

This has been really fun and interesting to discuss these topics with you. I wanted to ask, what's the best way to learn more about what Siemens is doing to either get in touch with you and learn more about any of the things that we discussed? I have a Twitter account. It's J-M-A-G-G-I-E-Y-U. And you can also try to connect with me via LinkedIn and just search Maggie Clout and you should be able to find me at my email account, maggie.clout at siemens.com.

So feel free to send an email to me and I would like to really hear everybody's perspective. If you have a project, obviously wanted to talk about that's even better. Thank you so much, Maggie. This has really been a pleasure chatting with you. Thank you, Brittany, for bringing me along and I appreciate the opportunity.

Thanks for listening to this interview with Maggie. Find out more about what Maggie is up to at constructor.com slash EP 77. If you learned something valuable in this episode, share it with your friends and colleagues. You can also let me know if you enjoyed our discussion by connecting with me on Twitter at Brittany underscore C-T or find me on LinkedIn. Or you can just email me too at Brittany at constructor.com.

That's B-R-I-T-T-A-N-I-E at construct double R dot com. Next week, we will be speaking with Vic Bangia. He is the founder and CEO of Verum Consulting, a corporate real estate strategy and operations consulting firm where Verum is Latin for truth. Vic also serves on the Global Board of Directors or Cornet Global and the board of rebuilding together Twin Cities, a nonprofit that provides critical home repairs for homeowners in need. Vic and I talk about obstacles that companies face internally, whether or not able to proceed in carrying out some of their corporate real estate goals.

We also talk about different strategies that it takes in order to hurdle them, especially how to make RFPs fun again. Lastly, we discuss the adoption of technology and facilities management and workplace. I look forward to sharing this interview with you guys next week. If you haven't already subscribed to the podcast, you can do so at your preferred podcast player. Please leave a review to show your support and let me know you're enjoying the podcast.

I look forward to talking with you guys next week. you