Transcript: Lean In Design 2018 Recap

Lean construction respect for people is the heartbeat and the core of any type of lean implementation. Hello and welcome to the Constructor Podcast, The Best Way to Build It, episode number 82. I'm your host, Brittany Campbell-Turner, and this podcast is dedicated to helping property owners have certainty in their decisions about their construction projects. We talk about fostering trusting relationships, help you to understand how to lower risk, be under budget and on schedule, and most importantly, exceed your end users' desires. Last week, we spoke with Harvey Johnson.

We talked about the emergence of predictive analytics, mobile technology and wearables, Internet of Things, and how that is the cause for data security and becoming more and more important. Harvey and I discussed the major companies that put themselves at security risk every day and how they actually can get compromised through construction tools. We actually also talk about how blockchain can play into all of this. So if you haven't listened to that episode yet, listen to my discussion with Harvey Johnson from PB Mayors at constructor.com slash EP 81.

Today's episode, we will be speaking with attendees from the Lean Construction Institute Design Forum. First, I want to mention that many of the interviews don't have super clean backgrounds because I was recording in the room where there were exhibit booths and coffee around. So you'll hear a little bit of the hustle and bustle and other voices in the background. But the LCI design forum was hosted in conjunction with the American Institute of Architects, AIA, and P2SL with a focus on design. And AIA was pivotal in bringing in the design community of architects.

P2SL is run by Glenn Ballard. He is the co-founder of the Lean Construction Institute. And we're actually going to open up the discussion today with Glenn. We'll begin the conversation today. So today we're here at the design forum, LCI 2018.

We're speaking with Glenn Ballard today. First, I guess I can ask you a little bit about the work you've been doing internationally. The talk I gave in Karlsruhe, Germany. One of the key takeaways there is the importance of creating psychological safety within an organization. That is the feeling safe to speak truth to power, to raise questions, to expect help, not harm if you make a mistake, so that you can help learn how to do something, avoid making that mistake in the future.

That actually originated out of my construction safety research. But I discovered something outside of construction safety. The construct itself, psychological safety, was developed by a Harvard professor, Amy Edmondson. And there's an 11-minute YouTube video by that title. Then she starts with this scenario.

She's not involved in construction at all, but she's done a lot of research in medical teams. The first vignette was about a medical team. I'm a night nurse on duty in a hospital. I'm taking medication to a patient. I glance at the dosage and I go pale.

My God, this will kill her. I'd better call the doctor and make sure he hasn't made a mistake. Then she starts thinking about what happened the last time she questioned that doctor about something he had told her to do. And she starts talking herself out of it. She doesn't make the call.

Amy tells two more stories, different settings, but they all have the same point. Feeling unsafe may not be a matter of feeling like we're going to get killed or even as serious as losing our job, although that might emerge, but it can be just being disregarded. And I think we all have experiences in our lives where we've not spoken up and we regret it. We feel embarrassed in thinking about that and wish we had, but you can't recreate the future. And I think it's a fundamental human problem.

Lean leadership is all about dealing with fundamental human problems. And that's the challenge that I've had in trying to approach the idea of lean in design. I'm not a designer, but you know, working as a project manager in construction, I'm always just sort of leading people through the process, giving them guidelines. But it's one of those things where you really cannot approach design at all that way. It's a different function.

And there's so many moving parts that's integrated the entire time. And I agree with you. Innovation, which is also something we talk a lot about on the podcast, is creating that environment again for failure, right? In order for you to be open to saying, well, let's attempt this. And if it's not working, let's pivot.

Little mention of this. I tried to get funding for this idea, actually, from the National Science Foundation. I didn't get accepted, but I should have persisted, I think. Because almost never do you get first-time proposals accepted, especially around new ideas. I asked people to share about their favorite sessions thus far in the design forum.

And many people shared with me about the keynote, Advocates Lean Journey by Albert Mansham from Advocate Health Care. Glenn shares his thoughts about it first. The two voices you'll hear following him are Felipe Engineer, the corporate lean manager at McCarthy Construction, and Kevin Labreck, the senior vice president of operational excellence at Harper Limbaugh. That's why I advocated to the speaker from Advocate, the health care company, that they measure and share how they spend their savings. And that's a way of taking advantage of promoting innovation.

If they're absolutely at the maximum that they can or are able and willing to spend to get specified benefits, if you can change the perspective benefits, you can change what they're willing to spend. And then in some cases, you can even generate that additional fund from savings within that same project. But you'd want to look at it more at a program level from an owner's perspective, not just at an individual project level. Because you might be saving in this project, but you don't really have the opportunity, the payoff, to spend it, but you may have it somewhere else.

Really cool to see a lot of numbers and statistics on what Advocate's doing on their lean journey and how they're starting to move towards an integrated project delivery, which is really cool to see. I'm going to take that peer pressure back to California, too. Because I know that they do a lot of work here in Illinois and Wisconsin. The Advocate group presentation is powerful in terms of the metrics and results that they are able to demonstrate with respect to overall lean journey, but they're having applied IPD and the net effects on their program overall.

So it's good to see the tie between the intent, what we wanted to do, and the net outcome and the results and what we're seeing from that perspective. Nick Laughorn works with Bolt Construction. I asked Nick about some of the work they've been doing with Advocate and some of the goals they have. Al Mancham did a great keynote Advocate Aurora's perspective now since their recent merger on their lean journey and their development into IFOAs and everything they've done and the great success that they're seeing and the big goals that they still have to keep doing better.

So it's pretty inspirational and we're fortunate enough to get to work with them on several projects and be part of that. He had some good messages to the group I think that was really inspirational and seeing an owner talk about that is always a great thing to influence the industry. So we do a lot of the ambulatory work with Advocate and the unique thing about that project is that it isn't some of the first IFOA projects that Advocate is pursuing. We were able to have a very similar team on each of the projects.

So we get to learn from project to project and that's what's been so great because you know you get a good baseline and you think you do a good job. You make some good metrics, but we've been doing this now for three four years and continue year over year improving the metric such as prefab and modularization. They've got some big goals of going to I think it's 40% prefab modularization by 2020. You know, we're currently hitting close to 20% on most of those projects. But when we started we were probably 5%.

So over the last three four years, we've really ramped that up. Some of the goals for cost savings. They've got some big goals change orders is a big goal. You know, they started off with I think I was mentioning that they were around 5% of their project costs were based in change orders today on a lot of the work that we're doing with the ambulatory work. They're like 0.2% 0.3%.

I mean, it's super low and their goal is 0% on change orders by 2020. We're well on our way there. But when we started three four years ago, it was, you know, close to that 5% like a traditional project they've done over the year. There's example after example like that that I think been interesting to see the team perform and succeed and hit the goals, but they're not done yet and they're continuing to push for more. So it's great.

It's really incredible that advocate measures and shares their savings at such a granular level. As Glenn said, it changes the perspective of benefits when the owners looking at it. So next we'll hear from Rachel David from the University of Chicago Medicine and she gives her take on what she learned at the design forum on a whole and about advocate too. It's great. It's been very educational.

It's introducing me to things that maybe that I haven't been familiar with and that's exciting for me to see hear other stories from other health care facilities that are implementing it as well and things that we didn't do like the pods that advocate is doing. So that's kind of neat to learn about. It's no surprise that we had another presentation that the audience appreciates. It was called a lean trilogy where three teams discuss the good the bad and the ugly unified works moderated the panel Felipe describes it.

The panel discussion that Unified Works put on with three different teams from University of Chicago Medical Center was phenomenal. That alone would have been worth it to come here to hear the three different perspectives and they had paired architects and project managers from University of Chicago Medical Center, which is really cool to hear. So we aren't going to just talk about health care clients and their presentations. I'll be at wonderful, but there is some specific feedback about the design focus given that we're attending the design forum after all Nick and Rachel share what presentations they attended in their thoughts starting with Sam Spada's presentation in the learning session called introduction to lean and design.

Intro into lean design well-facilted session and it brought me back to some of the basics and some good refreshers of things that you know, you do this for a lot of years and you start thinking about next thing. What can you do next and how to get those teams to go? But you got to start with the basics with everyone who especially where their levels at give me some good reminders of where to start some of that education some of that coaching some of that team building Sam's presentation is all about starting to put it in more and design not just construction and it is hard with architects that are having the reluctance of the value yet and being in the meetings, but actually it kind of was showed here that if he was in more meetings there would be less RFIs and those answers

could be answered much sooner. And so trying to just get that buy-in from the architects is going to be a challenge again, it's just showing them the value of them being there and the work the less they'll have to do. So why is the lean construction Institute focusing on the design community anyway focusing about lean and design? I think Nick puts it well, the most opportunity to create the value on the project. I believe is really during the design phase and making the right decisions and really thinking through the design to get the best value for owners starts in the design phase.

So I think having two events a year focused on design through the lean perspective, it's always a good event to enhance that and get that out into the community and hopefully get more projects on that road. Glenn Ballard adds his take. I think what designers are often concerned about and reasonably so is does lean just help you avoid doing things wrong? Or does it also help you do the right thing? And I think we need to develop that side not just for the designers but for our own.

I'm going to give a talk in the UK actually at the LCI UK annual summit. I'm going to talk on lean and lean design. And I'm going to start I've got to go find my friend Stan Chu because he made the same distinction between Toyota production system and Toyota product development system. The better analog for construction is product development not factory production. It's ETO, it's engineered to order.

You know you're done with the project when production starts. The product is launched. You have advanced, you have enhanced your portfolio of product offerings in the world. I'm with the designers there and I've been thinking that we should try to find ways to structure projects so that we can take better advantage of innovation. If we persist in saying that all of the decisions have to be made at the beginning and we don't have any flexibility for incorporating emergent ideas, then we're suppressing innovation.

In a sense it looks to me like we're trying to make design into construction. Larry Kavanaugh from Unified Works, he gave us some of his feedback on choosing by advantages led by Todd Henderson in the learning session. Todd led us through some learnings of the choosing by advantages as a decision making system and the various methods that are used within CBA and how they apply in general and how the design and construction world incorporates that system. Did you have an opportunity to actually do some iterations during the training?

Todd had a number of examples and scenarios and simulations, one of which was very specific of choosing a mechanical system, information that was available for us to pull out the components that you look for in crafting a CBA oriented decision. And then there were a number of decisions that were outside the industry that allowed the method just to be fleshed out. I mean we are in making decisions as humans just daily. So we learned about how to pick from three different shelter dogs the features and components of which dog you might pick and how you would craft it and then after that exercise show of hands.

So who picked the chihuahua, who picked the hound, who picked the labrador or whatever it was. And interesting how hands went up on either camp of that individual decision with the same set of information. Felipe is going to be talking a little bit about how he's living a lean life and specifically gives a few examples throughout this episode. At this time he will be specifically speaking about how he uses choosing by advantages. So listen in.

So I grew up here in Chicago. Actually, I've been gone for 10 years. I got super homesick yesterday standing on the river watching all the boats go by. It just brought back so many memories. I went to school here at University of Illinois at Chicago.

Electrical engineering is what I trained in. Never used it a day in my life. Been in construction for over 15 years. I started lean when my son was born and it's just enveloped my whole life. I've become very passionate about it.

I found Scrum four years ago and that's changed how I work and how I operate my home life as well. I use it for everything. Schoolwork, projects, working with teams. Like for me, it's never been a set of tools for me. It's always been principles and a mindset.

That's mindset that I carry forward with how I work, how I selected, even where I live now. When I moved to north of Sacramento, I used choosing by advantages to figure out what house to move into and my wife never even had to see it. She saw our factors and she was so dialed in with everything that I was able to pick a house that we moved into sight unseen, my wife and son, and they loved it. My son's almost nine years old now and he's tried to make me promise, but I'm not promising that we can't move until he graduates high school.

And Larry concludes his feedback about Todd's presentation, sharing about collaboration and choosing by advantages. Collaborating and just being in with colleagues in the room was useful just to have my own questions, hear other questions get raised and addressed and how things apply in our businesses. There was elements of the system whereby collaboration and deciding as teams where maybe I have an individual decision I might make just about anything, whether it be business or personal. And then there's in our business world, which is highly associated with working in teams and with others and seeing how just the interaction and the engagement goes.

I'll let Kevin Labreck introduce himself. Kevin, you haven't heard his voice on this episode yet. I am chair of 2018 Congress to be held in Orlando this year and acting co-chair of the community of practice in central Florida as well and hoping to carry on the legacy of learning that I have personally enjoyed over the course of the years from having attended Congress. I asked him to share a little bit about his lane journey. Had a previous employer was a global GC.

I had a role called quality manager and really studied TQM way back in the day and had been exposed to lean construction through that kind of interest level and research. In 2009, I had taken my first intro to lean class with Greg Howell and brought on to the broader community there and had attended my first Congress. For me personally, really enjoyed the open sharing with the entire constituency of the industry as opposed to different associations that rightfully so have to cater to their individual constituents. I found in LCI the entire spectrum of people concerned about delivering value in the AEC community and just some fresh open shared conversations that kept me coming back overall and I have been coming back.

Didn't tend every year, but maybe five or six Congresses and have learned something ever since. This is my first design forum. Of course, I'm learning something here today too. Given that Kevin is the Congress planning lead, I wanted him to talk a little bit about how they're using lean to plan the annual Congress. Both he and Felipe were able to share about how lean specifically scrum became a big part of the planning process.

Just attended a scrum class last year. I was fortunate enough to be the champion for a Felipe engineer as a presentation on scrum one, two, three, and he caught me. I caught the bug and we're actually using scrum to plan Congress this year and it's working out really well. It is inherent in the overall vision we have for Congress, which is it has to be a lean event. The planning of the event has to be lean and the experience for everyone involved from day one all the way through the end of Congress really should reflect upon what we're trying to do overall as an industry association.

It's been important and it's been great and I'm learning today from that perspective that just kind of helps me sharpen the saw go right back to planning Congress and applying the tools I learned today. Felipe talks about the benefits that his learning days team has realized from using scrum here. The feedback is so interesting. The whole reason I'm in learning days is because Kevin the Brack was the current chair was my champion last year and I had a scrum presentation at Congress and he asked me to join the Congress planning committee again and to help them to use scrum.

So the entire committee is using the scrum framework, but on my learning days microcosm We are using the scrum framework to organize all the learning days, which is the Monday and Tuesday sessions before the main Congress starts. You've gotten feedback from the participants. Tell me about this feedback. What does it look like? What did you ask your planning team after the debrief from last year's champion and our team has seven people participate on the team including myself and we asked people we were substantially complete in April.

We'd already selected all the speakers had it approved by the LCI board and we're just working through some logistics now before October and people were just like really enthusiastic about how great this is and starting to use scrum, you know bits and pieces of it in their own work and I saw and asked people hey, we just got through another meeting that got done in 20 minutes. Our meetings don't even take two hours like they originally did like a year ago. It used to take that long.

Yeah, so through the scrum framework, so 20-25 minute meetings every two weeks and I asked people what's benefiting you by participating on this team and this team using the scrum frameworks and I've got their comments here captured in the Trello board. Dylan said getting to see all the different avenues and teachings available for lean learning and exploring on my own. So we're sparking his curiosity and feeding that. Kristen Hill, who's the director of education for LCI said input and collaboration on what is needed for prospective courses was cool to see and she says this is helping advance what I can do for the industry by participating on this.

And Kristen's also a certified scrum master like myself just should put that out there. And then Andrea does a lot of marketing for LCI. She's like the magician in the background making a lot of things happen. She says she appreciates the extra planning that goes into this and the improvements found through the team discussions. Everybody on this team actively participates even though I'm the chair.

I'm not like dictating to the people, you know what we're going to talk about what we're doing and Diane who was last year's chair. So this was very insightful. The discussions and the levels of each course has been really deep and she's learned a lot through these types of discussions, which was different than the year before. Cindy was the chair two years ago. It's also on the committee now and said her organization has a desire to implement lean and with a continuous improvement with LCI Congress, this is keeping the momentum up and so the internal goals never get dropped.

So like as part of our onboarding, we spent the whole first meeting not working on anything and just seeing what the goals are, what we're trying to achieve and what we're going to deliver valuable for the participants. Everything we've done in this group has been with the participants in mind and Cindy is very much attuned with training. And then two more. Joan said she appreciated the full team involvement and she's really liking the two-week sprint concept. I don't remember Joan's actual title, but she's the glue that holds it all together and makes it happen.

And then I said for me, I went last. Everybody contributing to the teaching has been beneficial for me. I've learned from everyone. Everybody's helped a lot on this organization. The experience has been priceless.

I got another chance to turn on another scrum team. So for me, that's like awesome. It's always fun. At this time, I wanted to share some feedback from all these same people about hurtling. Some of the hesitations that some teams have in implementing lean, Rachel, Glenn, Felipe, They all give some really strong examples of hurtling fear, diminishing ego, and building familial relationships.

We have multiple projects going on. We have the ED that just finished and pool planning wasn't part of the entire process. It wasn't part of design, but it was part of construction and I could see how it was really beneficial. And so it's kind of funny that pool planning hasn't been part of construction this whole time because it eliminates so much waste. For an industry to be okay to run at 55, 60% success rate, that's insane.

How is that even tolerable for an industry to function? And that fear that someone had mentioned, like if we don't fix this, an Amazon or an Airbnb is going to jump in and take over and then we're going to be scrambling to figure out how to keep up and we shouldn't do that. And this is the solution. This is absolutely the solution. Amazon has been investigating building rockets for the past few years.

If they're investigating rocket science, why not disrupt the construction industry? Our industry, my job, healthcare field, the facilities, we'd be scrambling. You need communication and the fact that, again, running on that 55, 60% success rate of completion and projects being over budget, they said it was like 70%, which I fully see. Over budget, pass their schedule. That's not a way to produce anything.

There's no value in that. This topic about psychological safety is coming up more and more often because this is that underlying factor that really influences all of the other components. I think it's very fundamental, very fundamental. In fact, Edmondson, in her work, I think she kind of began developing this idea in the early 90s, about the time I started developing the last planner system. In the intervening time, she has done research and then inspired others to do research, has accumulated evidence that feeling psychologically safe improves individual and team performance.

The intermediate causal factor is by promoting learning behavior. Just think about if you don't feel safe to speak up, you're afraid to make a mistake, right? All of those things militate against doing experiments because you can't fail. Then you're not doing an experiment if you can't fail. That takes learning out of the picture.

She has data that shows that medical teams, for example, doctors, nurses, anesthesiologists, janitors, food service people, all the big medical teams perform better on every dimension of performance when they feel psychologically safe. More productive, they catch more errors. They don't make fewer errors necessarily, but because they see this as a team sport, the nurse says, be careful, you're going to leave the scalpel in the body, right? Which happens more often than you think. Oh my goodness.

Okay. But it's as simple as that. I mean, as simple or as complicated. It's that fundamental, just as you say. These comments resonated with me and I thought they would resonate with you too.

Some additional words of wisdom about creating and growing in a lean culture. So your son is also a scrum practitioner, if you will. Tell me some of the things that he's up to. The first sprint he and I did was when he was about five years old. We were going on vacation and he wanted to have fun before we had to go catch a flight.

So we did like a real quick half day sprint. And then since then we've used it to mostly play games. Actually, it's been fun. In school, he does a lot of visual management, online virtual academy. He's got a teacher, web access, presentations.

I mean, the kid goes deep. So we talk all the time about what he's learning. He knows the definition of lean construction and he's almost nine. And he knows it's all about respect for people. So like when we foul and our relationship is such that like, if I'm in a bad mood, let's say I get angry.

My son can talk to me. We have enough trust in relationship where he can say, hey, dad, I know you're not intending to be angry, but I can sense your anger. He wants to be a psychiatrist and I think it would be good. There's a lot of transparency in the house. It's one of the scrum values.

My wife, my son and I, it's been really great. They've been very supportive of the work that I do because I travel. I'm on the road every week. Sometimes I hit multiple cities in the same week. We make the home time really count.

We do do a family retrospective every Friday. We'd give my son information about something that he couldn't possibly know because it was before he was born. So we'd tell him about family history. We'll take turns. The two of us, we have a script of standard questions, of course.

And then lately we've been doing that for about a year. Now my son is facilitating those meetings. So I give him my phone that has the agenda with the standard questions and the meeting maker. He'll ask each of us the questions and everybody gets to turn. And we talk about what do we like that happened this week?

What do we learn? What do we have trouble with? What are we going to focus on next week to make next week better? And we do that all the time. I have him in Jiu Jitsu too.

Same three questions that are from the sprint. It's like what went well? What could be better? What's blocking you from getting where you want to be? I literally would get in the car and I say, all right, you know the three questions go.

And he just goes into it and then we'll listen to the radio and have other conversations. But it gets them to progress and think about making continuous improvement. I have it. What's your opinion about what you've been able to see this far about what you guys have been able to implement? My opinion to start with, it's really hard because when only maybe 5% of the industry is using this method, kind of an older mentality in the industry and in itself, they don't do well with change.

They don't do with adapting. And so you have to create this environment. You have to create this culture and you have to see how it's beneficial to them and how they're going to gain from this process. And so that's the challenge. But I've seen it once they buy in and they feel that ownership.

They say that's a we. You leave your ego at the door. That is the biggest thing that I see that bull planning does is you're not allowed to make it all about me and my trade. Now it literally is us and you almost create now this friendship and this trust that I know that I spoke with them and we spoke face to face and I have to do this to make sure he can do his job. And in order for me to do my job, this person has to do it.

And now we've all figured it out and now we're all working together. We have a face with each other. So it's a more of a respect. It's more of a trust building relationship. It's great to see it now where people don't feel uncomfortable.

At the beginning, a lot of people were worried about being blamed if something doesn't go wrong. But sometimes it's not their fault. And many times it's not. Materials weren't available. There are constraints that we weren't even aware of.

But now that we're talking and talking about the process before it happens, we can eliminate those constraints from holding up any work. It's beautiful. And we're hitting 85, 95 percent. You know, the last three, four weeks on our project, 95 percent success rate on completions of tax. And that's pretty impressive.

Wow. So what were some of the takeaways for the design form at large? And why did people actually attend? I think just focusing on the culture and the behaviors of a team is always one of the key important roles of a leader and a facilitator of any kind of project, but specifically developing a lean culture. And whatever you can do to build that culture and make people open and transparent and collaborative and get them out of maybe thinking of just their own work and thinking of the whole and just getting reminded of all those kind of things, I think are all good things to be reminded of constantly and things that you've got to keep working at day in and day out and not forget that that's the key to making this all work.

For people listening to the show and you're curious about lean and how to implement it, just remember to accept people as they are, as they come. Everyone starts with one step and that's how you start a long, long journey. And it's not too cliche still. It is a journey and it's a different way of thinking that I think could benefit anyone at any stage of their career, no matter what their job is. It changes everything when you start thinking about your respect and value.

If you wordsmith it enough, you'll see that respect eventually ties back to worth and value and it's how you treat people with value and you start with yourself. It changes your everyday outlook and how you engage with the world around you. Like as individuals, we can only do so much, but as a collective whole, it's a totally different possibility. Try to make as many of these as possible. There's always good learnings, good networking.

Those are the two primary reasons I'm here. Just coming back to some of the basics after doing this a while, I think it's always good to get refreshed on some of the basic things to help teams and people you're coaching that are starting their journey and get reminded of, oh yeah, we got to do that too. It's always good to take people step by step through the process of becoming some lean champions. But then there's great networking. A lot of people that you don't see until some of these events and then others, new faces that just network and get relationships with.

So it's been a great event. I'm actually on the LCI Link Construction Institute Congress Planning Days Committee. One of the things that we had to do is to evaluate presenters for learning days and some of them that we've selected are actually presenting here. So as part of the going to the GEMBA, I wanted to come and see for myself and evaluate some of the presenters before the larger Congress audience because the scale, this is about close to a quarter of the size of Congress. So we're going to scale up to larger groups in the Congress learning days and the design form is a great place to come and see how people are actually doing it.

How are people reacting? How am I going to react? So that's what I'm going to take back to our next committee meeting is what I observed and what the takeaways were. How would you react to hearing some of these presentations? And are you going to attend the next design forum?

How about the LCI Congress in October? I'm going to be there and I'm going to be doing a lean lab on how to use blockchain or smart contracts to support an integrated project delivery contract. But the Congress Planning Committee has worked very hard to make the upcoming Congress a success and here are some of the metrics that Kevin and the rest of the planning team have worked on. The first metric that we were aiming to meet and that is the submission of abstracts overall and we had a goal of 220 abstracts and received 253.

And not only that, this year I think our number was 55 of the selected abstracts. So we had I think a total of 84 that were associated with the Congress Planning Committee and then there's a couple of holdouts for different functions within LCI, the board, the research committee, the COP practice committee and of the 84 we had to select 55 were either submitted by owners or included owners on the speaking presentation panel. I think in the course of my years it is good to see that growth and that pull in the overall industry of owners from a lean perspective.

The other metrics we're trying to hit, 1700 plus attendees. I will get the rest of the percentages. I think there's somewhere between 11 and 12 percent attendees on the owner and the design side so we're really looking to draw in there. And then one of the other things that we do discuss is the regions since Congress rotates every year, maintaining that draw and that pull from all over the country, then also figuring out how to maximize the local attendance in central Florida for the purpose of continuing to connect that community beyond Congress.

So really use the energy to kind of grow and share and learn together locally in the marketplace. I really think it's important for us as a lean community to share the wins as well as the swings and misses that we have because all of us can learn collectively from the swings and misses and kind of continue to get better and better and better. I want to thank all of the guests on the show today. All of those who spoke with me at the design forum. And if you want to learn more about the Lean Construction Institute, you can find out more at leanconstruction.org.

And if you're interested in attending the LCI Congress in October, go to lcicongress.org. You can also find the show notes at constructor.com slash EP 82 to find out more. If you learned something valuable in this episode, share it with your friends and colleagues. Also you can let me know on Twitter or LinkedIn or you can just email me too at britney at constructor.com. That's B-R-I-T-T-A-N-I-E at construct double R-A dot com.

Next week we'll be speaking with Michael Carr from TouchPlan. We talk about the value of the last planner system, also known as pulled planning. We talk about how it impacts project teams, how it can impact whole organizations, and how TouchPlan can help support the process by digitizing the last planner system. I look forward to sharing this episode with you guys next week. If you haven't already subscribed to the podcast, you can do so at your preferred podcast player.

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