Transcript: Leadership by the Seat of Your Pants..? There Is a Better Way

So the construction community at large, one of my things, everyone in the construction industry is relevant and important and we put ourselves in a box and remove ourselves from the table for various reasons and we've allowed in some ways others to dictate the things that we should be doing and lean construction has helped push that conversation or push us up to the front if we choose or we dare to to step up to recognize where our seat at the table is and that we need to acknowledge that we need to own that and become a part of the conversation and recognize that how important we are to the whole spectrum again Whatever trade you are it becomes the most important one when it's not getting done correctly and so you recognize that you're relevant and important and whether you come to work with car hearts and overalls

or suit and tie you're important and you need to speak up when it's your time in your moment You You You You You You You You I'm speaking with Jean-Marc this morning at the LCI annual Congress some time ago when I was at the Believe it was the Boston Congress Chicago two years ago. Oh was a Chicago. Is that when I saw you? Yes. Okay So I saw Jean-Marc and Beth Carrington do the car improvement Presentation it was actually a training Four hours, right?

It was a training on the cat and the linens Industry lean the construction industry and also I did a conference on how to apply cat that so I had two engagements Okay I wasn't able to attend the second one and I had a wonderful experience in the training So I'm happy to chat with you here at the Congress a little bit about a couple things what you're doing In your consulting role at Bell Nordic lean consulting and I'd love to share with the audience a little bit about the high level points of Cata improvement.

So first of all, tell me a little bit about yourself. Where are you from? What are you up to? What's your background? How did you get here?

I'm a consultant and trainer in lean in general So we started likely manufacturing with different type of companies could be airspace pharmaceutical or service organizations and I have University seminars and Public engagement but also less of coaching with the different organizations and we do lean Projects so really our thing is to do transfer of competencies So we train people in the company in their organization and we make sure that they learn how to do it and as we go we lean back and they are doing it more and then we Evaporate and we go to some other places so really the thing here is that we help people to get autonomous and We've been doing that for 30 years.

So we have fun and it's very interesting People were asking and discovering about lean construction So we had few engagements, you know over the year very few with construction companies but the field became like very big and I Had one university asking me and bugging me about we do BIM and we need also lean construction Well people why don't they come to my regular lean training and that will do it You know and they kept bugging me and say no, no, no, we need to have a specific lean Training for the construction field so I started to meet GC's and meet people and then I came to the LCI conference in Chicago and developed a Good contact with the industry and now for the last three years we are into lean construction so that's how we we came about and actually if there's something that I

Appreciate a lot about the conference the LCI conferences is the fact that through the presentations and facilitation of different conferences the Examples provided by the people are very very interesting and they do explain how to make it happen for real So that's very interesting. I love these Conferences because it provides me with my field of expertise That's a very good examples and I meet people this morning I did a lean coffee Experience that was no wonder you've had four coffees today. That's it. I started earlier 645 I was on you know when Nicholas was our Yamashita, he was a very good trainer and so that was my first lean coffee Format experience and I think I will bring it up also with my my friends here in in Montreal so I'm based in Montreal Quebec and Winter is coming.

So that's how I came into the field of lean construction And that's why I like this conference is really to give me more examples and more practical Experience and we learned we learned with the people who are doing some stuff and they made mistakes Or it was not what they expected as a good performance and this is really Brings me to the topic I was training with Beth Carrington this week about the Toyota Kata. It's There's two parts improvement Kata and coaching Kata. So it's the understanding of one author Mike Rother the book is named Toyota Kata and it's a explanation of or understanding of what is underlying the conscious improvement movement in in Japan Especially and that is based on the scientific approach of you know, what is the what is the symptom?

What is the cause and why don't we make an hypothesis about what we should be doing? Conduct an experiment one at a time and see what we think will happen Measure what happened and learn something about it Kata is about making experiments and learning From the experiment increasing the knowledge threshold So I think this conference is really Kata because I could see different people that that tried to do different things with the planning or with the Are you intertwined with the trades or the subcontractors or what kind of contracts you do?

Or what type of software you try to use and how you convert the scheduling into practical Steps or how you could be the schedule or meet the schedule instead of An overrun of the schedule and stuff like that. So this is very Kata, you know But you don't have to do all the experiences you could only attend all the conferences and talk with people and see what they've tried and maybe increase Your threshold of knowledge Kata, what is the translation? It's the translation of the word Kata, what is the translation?

It's K-A-T-A in English, but what's the translation in Japanese? It's Kata So maybe in martial arts you you've done maybe karate or stuff like that. So Kata is a routine So the routine is to practice Techniques until you master it and that you don't even have to think about it It's just kind of a reflex. So I guess when we do conscious improvement we want to bring a Kata of practicing plan do check and Also to help by coaching which is the coaching Kata to to help the people doing the problem solving To have a good procedure or a good Scientific approach so Kata is routine That's helpful.

I should have asked it the opposite way Kata is Japanese and yeah, you fixed me That's really helpful to understand that it's a it's a routine eyes approach of Problem solving and the coaching perspective is also a support to that process In order for those who are involved To essentially make sure that they're making steps towards true improvement they're giving giving a different lens to what the problem is so And what we do then is that through coaching we really Encourage people to also have a coaches could be a colleague could be your boss But could be someone in the organization that is good at coaching and the coaching Has a structure call that the five questions So they the the first question is what is the target condition?

The condition is more like a pattern work pattern not only Measurements, but how the things would happen like how many people would do it or what time of the day? They will do it or what kind of tool or what kind of spirit or what kind of? Trade or what kind of expertise they must have so we have also we asked the person that I coach You know, what is your target? What are you shooting for? Well, that's the first step You know, you could improve whatever you want, but are you shooting for something or just fooling around?

So the first question is what is the target condition the second one would be what is the actual conditions if you don't know where you start from How do you measure the gap because in conscious improvement? the problem doesn't exist the only a distance between the desired outcome in an actual outcome is an issue a Problem is not a problem. It's a difference between a target and the actual condition So if you want to solve something then you have to ask about the obstacles, you know what prevents you from doing it and So you as the learner or the improver what obstacles you think you are preventing you from reaching the target condition and so, you know you have the person thing in terms of different obstacles and you have the the person the improver to Identify only one to work on like scientific approach if you adjust one parameter

Well, then you don't adjust five parameters and then you don't really know what parameter helped to get there So one one obstacle at a time and then you would ask the improver. What is your next step? you know, what will be your next experiment and and Asking what do you expect if you are in in chemistry and you mix two stuff before you mix two stuff to see Let's see what happens. I guess you better think in terms of I think the color will change or I think we have an explosion so you better See what will happen at least?

What do you expect and then you would ask the person how quickly we can go and see what we have learned from taking that step So it's always like the routine It's an agenda actually of a meeting that you have with the coach and the learner or the coach and improver we These two as Equivalent I guess and as you did the first experiment then you would ask the same question, but you would Ask the person. What is your target condition? What is the actual condition because the condition may have changed and then you reflect on the last step taken What did you plan as your last step again?

Okay. What did you expect and most importantly what actually happened? And the final question is what did you learn? Yes, so that's it And then you go back and say on what obstacles you think you will be working on next and what is your next experiment? And when can we see and go?

so katha is in very well with the with the lean construction because there's so many issues so many elements of non-value added activities problems capacity problems and I link also lean with safety if you have like a well organized work If you have a well organized area if you have visual aids visual procedure you help people to be safer and safer, so lean katha for the problem solving and coaching and Safety they work very well together. It's kind of a same spirit It's so systematic and like you mentioned it's a routine and Actually sitting here John has taken out a little reference card, which I think is very useful It's called katha matters or it has the the actual logo on there And it has the the five questions at the top there So that you can pull it out when you're getting ready to do the review with the improver

and make sure that as you're thinking about these questions You can go through them systematically and then there's also a documentation process and Basically it's using an a3 right to document the responses to those questions and go through the PDCA Process yeah in katha format we call it the cycle record cycle record, okay You know myth buster the show The main guy I forgot his name equal to a friend of his and they said that the difference between the scientific approach and Fooling around is to write it down So when you say a3 or the PDCA Time to check a cycle record.

It's about writing down So you you know the knowledge of people has to pass from generation to generation And they actually in the states in Canada. There's lots of BB boomers Going on retirement and they have all their knowledge in their head So how will we pass the knowledge the next? Group of people that will be in charge so write it down But you don't write anything you just like maybe link it with the issues and problems or and PDC a recycle record You Stop fooling around write it down Stop fooling around write it down.

I like it. That's very good. So let me ask you a question you've been Doing coaching for a long time. I'm sure you've experienced some Success stories by people utilizing kata improvement kata code or coaching kata Do you have any examples that you can share with us about how this has been? Been implemented and some of the results that they realized So, yeah, one of my favorite example is gala system.

They do a theater seating but Mechanical so what you do is what they do is let's say you have a flat You know Congress Center or a trade center, but that night you want to have a show with Someone you empty the 45 Feed truck and the equipment that is on the floor Then you take them out and when it's empty You only press a button and the chairs and are coming That from up from the floor and the the floor rotates and then on the other side You have the seat and then it sits to the right place and then at the end you have a theater setting and you could Have like a great show at night.

So it took only 15 minutes to set up a 1000 2000 seating theater one problem is that they installed that like in the all around the world with different places and They ship the material but the construction has to be done by local people, right? So what happened is that it takes a long time to figure out what? Cases go where and what material goes where so they were like Really using a lot of people to locate materials The crane was used a lot very heavily Because they would move back and forth and they would move material people by hand will move like Frank shaft or Drive shaft or stuff like that.

So it was very cumbersome and takes a long time Installing a setting could take like nine months ten months Yeah, so the big big entertainment so they asked us to help them So we we went there and established a new place and we had a great time To help them so we we went there and established a storyboard which is one of the key elements of the Keta Where you have what is the target condition the actual condition the obstacles and the plan do check acts I got a record we work as an example on one element which was locating material So they have like three people's all-time Locating material and they have difficulty so we ran some experiment they did we were just coaches and One experiment was to decide where to drop the material they try that and they reduce let's say Two hour per case location time down to an hour 15 minutes.

So that helped Yeah, but the it was not enough the target was the challenge actually was ten minutes But if they didn't try if they didn't attempt ten minutes, then they wouldn't have realized Exactly and then So the another series of experiment they've done with Keta was to identify the material So they tried different types of identification and finally from the factory They say why don't you put on the case the picture of the part? We're looking because we have the picture of the part on the installation list We don't have the picture of the part on the cases So now they put the picture of the part on the different side of the cases and now located the cases there went down by Almost like 30 minutes.

So but they're still that the target was not meet a met So they started to decide that they will have only a maximum of new cases sent by the factory Per day so they will have like a tack time we use that in the instructions also and the attack the factory with the installation rate and So the logistic rate was the same tax So they did three type of experiment the first one was to locate spaces on the floor The second one was to identify more easily the the cases with the with the pictures on it And the third one was to synchronize the operation with the Tuck time and I think they achieve it quite good like maybe be 20 minutes But you know when you're from two hours 20 minutes It did a good job and they're still working on improving that and the point is that after when you write it down

then when you do something in Singapore, then you could take the What you've learned and bring that to Singapore or to Dallas or wherever they go to install these kind of system So that's an example. I like it and People were meeting every day to see what happened. That's really interesting Thanks for sharing that. I think it makes it more tangible to understand how Cotter can actually be implemented for you know a real-world example, so so that being said Jean-marc Thank you so much for hanging out.

Thank you Brittany. It's always a pleasure to meet you So I hope I see you before the next two years Always a pleasure. Thank you so much. We see you soon Thanks for stopping by could you tell me your name? My name is Clifton Cole and I'm with the Pensive building group for a general contractor based out of Las Vegas my regional offices and Phoenix, Arizona and Los Angeles so You stopped by today to tell me that you do listen to the constructor podcast So that's wonderful and you talked about the fact that you listened to the episode with Brent Darnell talking about emotional intelligence Share with me about you know what you liked about that You I have an engineering background, so we're more Analytical get to the problem You know put your head down and get to the issue or the solution as fast as possible

What was interesting about what mr. Darnell talked about is no problem can be solved by yourself So really understanding what makes people tick and how to relate to them and how to communicate with them because ultimately at the end of day Construction is a religion based Industry built on teamwork and good communication is key to success on most projects so for me It's just learning more about what that means and how to understand how to approach people and communicate with them So also me get to the ultimate goal that we're trying to achieve which is provide our clients with a Facility yeah, that's absolutely right.

I have an engineering background as well. So trust me the analytical approach to things It's like we get stuck in our work and it's like, you know, we forget about the relationships that we have to build So now that's really good and you attended a couple sessions thus far tell me your response is high-level Yeah, so far so good. The the information is great A lot of times it's like drinking from a fire hose you get a lot of stuff coming at you So really trying to focus on some of the nuggets that come out of it take, you know Good notes so you can go back to the office afterwards and kind of debrief and then for me the key is taking what you learn and Pushing that communication out to the company and in any kind of way possible a lot of things that they talked about is, you know

Getting small groups together focus groups getting to the workers last planner getting people together and really talking about the issues that they're struggling with and it coming up with a Written plan to end that you can execute and then retrospect so follow up on the things that you learn the things that you struggled with and then make sure that you can Make sure you have a solution for those the next time you deal with it Well, yeah, I mean the a3 right at the end of the day, right?

So no that makes a lot of sense and you seem to be a key person to take that back to your company So what you have any high-level plans right now as to how you plan on sharing that with your team at Penta? My thought initially based on where at right right right now is kind of get them a good foundation Yeah, start with understanding some of the concepts not necessarily focusing on the tools immediately And that'd be more second or third step down the line Getting everybody to understand why we're doing this what lean actually is for us specifically I mean some of the contractors that are talking they basically said, you know We had to figure out for ourselves what this is how it implements into our company But that's what I want to bring back get out to the job sites, you know

We heard terms like gimbal walk and stuff like that. I'm not Japanese I think we got to figure out how to take those terms and related to the people I work with Yes, you have a common language that we all understand so the information can really soak in because ultimately at the end of day We want to develop lean thinkers that can think about for themselves because you're not always going to be there to support them So get to the people with the grassroots the workers fields also not just the field But also in the office and have that back of a better word synergy between between the two because that's where a lot of times the Communication gap is broken between what the office is doing and what the field is doing I'm really looking forward to what you end up doing and how it's implemented into Penta

So next year when you come by let me know how it's going. Okay, you're informed. Definitely. I appreciate it Thank you so much for stopping my problem. Thank you for your time You We are at the LCI Congress in Orlando sitting here with Henry nut The third could you share a little bit about your background and how you started to engage with the LCI community?

So my background is I'm a sheet metal worker of 31 years October this year Congrats. Thank you. And I am I work for Southland industries now for 11 years And I am the general superintendent on sheet metal I manage anywhere from 50 to 200 plus people in the field and shops and I'm also one of our lean champions in the company and do a lot of work with training and development keeping Southland brand and what we promote as a Company in regards to being lean and using those tools to improve our work.

Yeah, thanks for sharing that So you not only look at it from an internal perspective But you look at it from how does this improve our behavior as a as a company and then also the the superintendents that you manage, right? Yes, tell me about how you've engaged with the LCI community and how you pull from the LCI community But also contributed thus far so About ten years ago I began working with LCI and it was under the guidance of one of my PMs and said you should be a part of this and and so I became engaged and sat down with people and went to meetings and Myself this dialoguing about work and realize how important it was for me to be at that table and have those conversations And so something about link construction and doing that type of work in that method

Just resonated with me this made sense And so some things I probably were doing already and then it was a lot of other things that just made sense different tools that you Use to make your work more transparent so that you can understand where you may have pitfalls so that was a the contribution for LCI to me or to our company was providing these different methods and understanding how to improve the work that you do every day and Continuous improvement understanding what waste really meant Learning about value.

What is customer value look like and that terminology? It was like yeah, that really makes sense if it doesn't bring value then why are you doing it? so that's the contributions that LCI has made to me and From the other way around I've became like this Soldier I guess in a sense and going forth and an evangelist preaching the message and getting my teams to buy in and find Myself whether at project interviews doing shop tours and helping people who had interests that really wanted to understand How to start leading journey or what we've done and becoming that advocate becoming that spokesperson and just running with it So I've done last plan of workshops That we've started and it was kind of out of my concern for Congress not impacting the people who have advanced a three to five years and Coming here and not all of us want to hear how a company started their lean journey on one lean project.

It's great It's important But what do you do for those who have advanced past that and if we don't capture that and listen to those voices then? Those people are going to drift off and then their turnaround There's going to be a consistent new beginner coming into lean and it's never going to grow and you're not going to have those advanced Practitioners so the advanced practitioner class, you know, not anyone can just go to it You have to be invited but it's an important conversation that ultimately does affect the larger audience And then the last kind of workshop was designed for the tradespeople Okay and so it brings together anywhere from say 15 to 30 40 people across the country and they do it in different parts of the country to make it easy for travel when we spend a day of training and actually working through different topics that

They bring to us and we make that part of our Agenda for the day and have sessions and things that people want to learn and discuss on the trades level Superintendents anyone who's doing work planning three questions. I want to ask you but I'm gonna I'm gonna steer it based upon what we discussed So you received an award actually spoke this morning about the experiences that you've had with LCI and we thanked a number of people who've Obviously been contributing a long time to this community, but it's called the pioneer award Right.

Tell me a little bit about how you became a pioneer Well, if you if you self identify that way You know, I don't know if I do or not Sometimes I I guess you look back and you say okay. Yeah, I've done that I look at a part here someone that is going down a path that probably doesn't exist, you know, there's no trail There's no real clear direction or plan or map that says you should go here. You just believe you should You don't just go out and just do it But you you solicit support or help or you may identify with some people that understand and so yeah There's a need and then somebody has to step out then and go do it.

And so that's what I did I think I bring something that's maybe somewhat unorthodox when it comes to construction Especially superintendents and foremen and I deal with behaviors and emotions and how we deal with people and Typically, that's not what discussed in our in our business. We've dealt with how we built faster, right? And then and all that's important However, when you think about when people are unhappy in their work, there's that saying where people don't quit companies they quit managers It's really about that Identifying with that part and those people who don't have a voice or feel like they're not a part of something bigger than themselves They don't have a real purpose Think about how much time we spend in our places of work more than we spend with our loved ones And so we're gonna do something we're gonna spend most time of our lives with and we don't enjoy what we do or we don't feel

Significant in what we do. That's unfortunate. I want to try to create an environment that people enjoy their work. They feel validated They feel important. They feel significant.

They don't fight the number and they're more productive. They're more innovative. They have ideas They contribute and so the other piece that I that I bring as a leader in this industry and I'm just being me and that's The great thing about it is that when I spoke today about the people that I think and the way I presented That's just who I am. That's not a put-on. That's not for the stage It's it's what I generally do and I hope to walk away from people and then they say this person was authentic They actually seem to care about me as a person and not just how much did I get installed today?

I'm gonna ask that question as well, but it's not necessarily my first question again. It's about people It's about relationships and if we can get those parts and our mindset of how critical they are Then I think we'd be more effective in our leadership Have you always been that way or did you come to realization or an aha moment? I've always been that way But I haven't always articulated the idea. Okay, I have allowed it to blossom in me for many years It was tucked away in a box and and I probably didn't feel confident that it was the message I should be sending and then life events happen and you kind of break out of that shell and you have to stop caring and Wondering what people think about you and you have to be yourself and that's when doors opened up for me

Sometimes life does that and it affects the way we go about it go about life Yeah, and it touches all areas that maybe didn't think that it would yeah You know, sometimes we go to work a lot of us may think just going to work is it you know It's getting the paycheck, right? But and what we do it's so complex and we saw so many problems you have to interact with so many people Knowing oneself is sort of that beginning step that allows you to interact right and it seems like you know yourself very well It's refreshing.

Thank you. So you're in the works of Developing a book as you told me yesterday Yes, I am tell us a little bit high-level about what the book is about It ties into something that I do at our company Which is going out to nonprofit organizations that promote or have programs that designed to bring people into the trades They may be immigrants. They may have a criminal records they may just be people who just start their career path late in life and Finally figured out what they want to do they may be coming back as a second or third career and construction and so I Spent a lot of time going to those programs and talking to those people and I find myself Sharing some of the same messages and primarily about encouraging them and my own journey and how I went from a pre-apprentice

30 plus years ago to be in the general superintendent, which would be considered the top that's the ultimate goal you know and so because I feel like you're going through your journey and you get there and you Sometimes you can forget the challenges you had and it's important to reflect back and think about that So when I speak to these groups It reminds me all the time of that never take for granted where I am and never forget how I got here and because of that I'm in a state of humility and thankfulness When I go and speak to them and hear their stories and their passion and desire and sometimes their doubt about how can I ever get there?

How can I make that? How can I be you and it's like you don't have to be me You want to be the best you here's some things that I did that I think are applicable to anybody and it's not just limited to construction But that's my journey. That's what I've done I share that a few things with them anywhere from not being planted in place where no one knows your name and You feel like you're in the dark and you're a small seed and no one even knows you exist in this business How do you begin to blossom and bloom and get somewhere and to not be discouraged in that moment to?

Being a victim because of different things that have happened in your life in the groups that I speak with Possibly have a lot of things that maybe most people don't ever have to experience But not allowing that to be their stumbling block and at some point whether they're the first person that Graduates from college or high school or gets a job legally making money It may start with them and they have to think to maybe their friends that you have that you need to just drop To learning how to understand that the people you hang out with and how they influence you and your mindset and your thoughts and how You have to cut that out of your life if you want success.

That's so real Yeah, yeah, it's critical So I share those kind of things and I answer questions and so I put it in a book form written the book I'm not sure what my title is gonna be yet was seven things because it was seven things that I used to talk about But I'm still working on that By June of 2019 is my date putting out there on public as you made me come up with my date Exactly thought about it and that's that's my goal and and so I'm excited about it I have a lot more thoughts that came with me with that with our conversation yesterday So I I am looking forward to that and maybe some other things I'm gonna in development now, too So that sounds great.

It can certainly be a reference tool for People that you may not even recognize today, you know You may be presenting it or have been presenting it to these specific groups But who knows who it could impact on a global scale, right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah exactly So yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing more about it next year It should be for sale right by by next Congress So so I'm looking forward to that and I will definitely catch up with you about it Anything else you'd like to share yeah, so the construction community at large one of my things everyone in the construction industry is relevant and important and we put ourselves in a box and remove ourselves from the table for various reasons and we've allowed in some ways others to dictate the things that we should be doing and Lean construction has helped push that conversation

We'll push us up to the front if we choose or we dare to To step up to recognize where our seat at the table is and that we need to acknowledge that we need to own that And become a part of the conversation and recognize that how important we are to the whole spectrum again What whatever trade you are it becomes the most important one when it's not getting done correctly And so you recognize that you you're relevant You're important and whether you come to work with car hearts and overalls and or suit and tie You're important and you need to speak up when it's your time in your moment I love it.

Yeah, thanks for showing that awesome having you on the podcast and we'll be in touch. Thank you very much Matt hello, thanks for coming back. Yeah, no problem. Tell me about yourself Been in the manufacturing environment applying lean and in the lean movement in the manufacturing environment for the last 20 years So just jumping out of it now into the construction industry and applying some of those same techniques outside of Manufacturing's bringing it into construction now Thinking from that mindset. What are some of the pitfalls that you're seeing and then what are you learning here?

That you think is actually workable. So Delta pleasant Delta. Yeah Yeah, I think You know the pillars and lean don't change You know Toyota had a pretty strong couple pillars of respect for people and the whole continuous improvement, so those are still the core of lean and construction I Think some of the some of the challenges are the environments we work in, you know, you got mother nature That plays a part in it and you have a lot more people that are spread out Compared to a manufacturing assembly line or whatnot I've learned a lot here a lot of takeaways about the importance of going to the field to look at The job in their eyes were the works being done the value So I'm looking forward to this journey.

I think there's a lot of low-hanging fruit. Yeah Because it's fairly new outside of manufacturing That's what I get excited about. Okay So this is your first Congress, right? Yeah, okay. You have some takeaways.

What sessions did you actually attend? Well, the one I just did today The the Gamba one was very inspiring in that you have to go to Where the works done with a purpose with canned questions on Try to get out of them what you're kind of looking for versus Going in there without a purpose and just saying hi and chit-chatting and it was very structured so that That one today kind of hit home and then there was one yesterday around Just kind of what are the top ten things you would want to do to?

Implement lean in a new organization and that's exactly where I'm at two months in so got my feet wet and got out to the field and But there's a whole lot to learn but you know, my task is to roll this out to our organization And how do we do that? So key takeaways yesterday were that so Nice Anything else you want to share about the Congress and or yourself? Well, I'm gonna keep attending these because I see a lot of value I'm you know the networking and and all that stuff You know the networking and and all that stuff that you can get from here.

I've got a lot of takeaways I've met a lean consulting firm. That's very close to Minnesota that I can lean on for for you know, my growth and and how we can educate our company We'll be bringing a lot more people here next year. We had planned to do that this year, but They wanted to say you go take a look at it. You come back and give us your recommendations so that's what it's gonna be looking at going forward and I Think it's Fort Worth, Texas, right?

Yeah, Fort Worth, Texas next year 21st annual Congress should be good if you liked this episode check it out at constructor.com LCI 2019 recap that's LCI 2019 recap If you learn something valuable in this episode share it with your friends and colleagues You can also let me know you enjoyed my discussion with these gentlemen by connecting with me on Twitter at Brittany underscore CT or find me on LinkedIn. You can also email me at Brittany at constructor.com That's br. I TT a and I E at construct double R calm Next week we will continue the 20th annual LCI Congress recap and you actually get to hear a presentation with me and James peas I'm looking forward to sharing that next week I also want to remind you that I'm looking to add to the constructor team I'd like to bring on a graphic design expert and

someone to Do some report generation if you'd like to partner and create with us Go ahead and reach out at Brittany at constructor.com. That's br. I TT and I E at construct double R Don't forget if you haven't subscribed to the podcast do so at your favorite podcast player I look forward to continuing the constructor journey with you next week You