Transcript: Labor Shortage: What is Really Behind It?

Hello, hello everyone. Happy Friday. I am so excited to be here with Diane Eisner. I am just super excited that we are going to be getting into the topic of the labor shortage. What is truly the driver?

What is truly what we're experiencing right now and how can we fix it? Diane, I have to introduce her really quick before we get into our conversation because she is a powerhouse. First and foremost, Diane is an entrepreneur and executive who currently is the co-founder and CEO of BiCor, a venture-backed construction labor marketplace. Previously she was the CWO of the CITES group at the Wee Company. She was at Waze and later at Google for 10 years and she started the US office of Waze in 2009, acquired by Google in 2013.

She ran growth, business development and platform. She serves on the board of SAIA, Inc. and Gray Area Foundation for the Arts. She is a venture partner at Obvious Ventures and a co-finder with Bupé Fiasco of Neighborhood Start Fund. There's more things on the loop, but what I would like to do is just welcome Diane to the show and really just thank you for joining us today.

Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation. Excellent. So that being said, let's get into it. All right.

You have you work at notable companies, primarily focused on tech. What is your passion for construction in the first place? Oh, gosh, it's a couple of things, but also it's mostly in my blood. So I come from a family of truck drivers and trades folks. You know, after this crazy career in Silicon Valley, it just feels good to be able to use what I've learned to be able to support that community.

That's first and foremost. And then all kinds of things that I've done, even with Waze, we did something called the Connected Citizens Program, where we were putting our data into traffic operations centers around the world, probably in about 1500 cities or so by the time I left. And you know, with some very simple tools, they were able to use that data to reduce congestion and improve emergency response time. So that was the first time I saw that you could use software and data to make a difference in the real world.

That's physical things, the built environment. So that got me really excited. That's so awesome. So you have a background, your family, you know, really is the foundation of kind of your your drive to this industry in the first place. And you saw how data connected to really driving valuable outcomes and that analysis.

So what what do you see as some of the problems that we're facing in the built environment today? Oh, my gosh, so many since we've been diving in. But, I mean, I guess we'll focus mostly on, you know, the labor shortage is a big one. And, you know, in a lot of ways, you have to look at why are we having a labor shortage? And, you know, it's the obvious things like, you know, reduction in funding for trade schools, people wanting to go get a college degree, parents deciding that it would only be good for their kids if they could have a white collar job and go to university.

But the media plays a huge role in it, too. Right. If you look at images of construction workers in the 20s or 30s, it's powerful, it's inspiring, there's a lot of pride. And then you look at the 50s and 60s and there's some and it's, you know, beautiful. And then, you know, late 70s, you start seeing people portrayed in the media as, you know, like somebody bent over and seeing the the butt crack or something.

And that kind of image has stayed. And it's been pretty uninspiring, I think, for people wanting to to come into the industry. So I feel like media has played a kind of a negative role. Anyway, I see that all changing, though, right, because some of it is just about where are the opportunities. At the same time, people are coming out of college with a lot of debt and not necessarily getting the kind of jobs that they thought they would get.

So I think there's this realization now also millennial attitudes are shifting. They want to do things they love. They want to work with their hands. So I feel like we might be really at the beginning of a resurgence, a re-rise of the worker, so to speak. And that gets me pretty excited.

Yeah, it's almost as though we're on this trajectory of really understanding how the new generations are going to take over, if you will, because, I mean, that's just that's how industries work. Right. New generations come in and there has to be a skill handoff. But in addition to that, what you're describing is a perception change. That's that's starting to kind of also take place, too.

That's really interesting. What do you think is driving that that perception change? And then, you know, do you have things that you're seeing that are causing that? Well, so, I mean, there's obviously a lot of friction of people finding jobs, right, because the social networks are pretty narrow in this industry. And so I think that, you know, using technology to bring people together is definitely one benefit.

But on the perception side, I would say, you know, if you look at the problems we face, like our big social problems, right, we've got problems related to environment, right. Yesterday was Earth Day. We have got problems related to inequality in this country anyway. And so many of those things can be tackled by the built environment or through building. And so you look at these technologies and you look at new sustainable materials, it's about to be a really exciting time, not just because learning those things is fun and using these tools is fun, but because it's about to, I think, be proving that it can solve our social problems as well.

And that's so deep. Yeah, I mean, that's how I think about it. That's what keeps me going. Obviously, you know, there's the business side and there's this all of this. But I do think that it's it is deeper.

It is deeper. And think about it. The affordable housing crisis we're in, we're not keeping up with the infrastructure we need. We're so far behind. And those are the obvious ones.

But I just I love thinking that we're in for cultural change, too, where, you know, we look at each other as equal. There's not this hierarchy based on what kind of job you have. And I think this is where the millennial attitudes come in handy, too, because they care a lot more about the climate than my generation. They care a lot more about technology. It's they just seems like a progressive generation.

Yeah, completely agree. I was just in a presentation by furniture company not too long ago who is really talking about Gen Z and how how we have to really think a bit differently about. Really responding to the social causes that all of us really should be interested in, right. And resolving or at least making steps towards resolving and having those difficult conversations, because it it's a need right now. It's always been a need.

But the Gen Z's are demanding it, which is really, really cool to see. So I'm glad that you're seeing that, too. It's good to kind of see it from many different perspectives. So, you know, what what do you see this labor shortage problem specifically causing for the built environment today? Well, for one thing, I think it's like almost 50 percent of companies say that they have rising construction costs due to problems with finding labor.

So it's definitely making things more expensive for everyone to go and find these workers. And that trickles down, like I said, all the way to being able to have affordable housing or things that really make a difference if you've got these rising costs. It is slowing projects down because, you know, the other the other piece of this puzzle, it's not just that it's hard to find the right skilled workers because there are so few of them, but yeah, that they exist and then how to find them and then that there's high turnover in the industry.

Right. It's what the construction industry has one of the highest turnover rates. That's and now obviously it's different company to company, but it's over 20 percent. And so, you know, you've got people coming and going all the time and that's slowing things down as well. So I think it's a it's a cost issue.

It's a time issue. It's a, you know, you have a lot of less skilled people out there because they haven't had a chance to get the education. They haven't had a chance to go out and and learn those skills that are sorely needed to make really beautiful, stable buildings. So, yeah, yeah, that's so it almost has like a yo-yo effect. Right.

If if we don't have enough labor, it causes the the purses, the the wallets to be pinched. So not only do we have issues with investment into the properties, but it's investment into our laborers, right themselves, our trade partners. And they're not feeling as fulfilled as a result of that as well. And so they're leaving the industry. There's high turnover.

People aren't feeling really good about this whole scenario. It's a cyclical effect almost. Is that what you're you're saying? I definitely see that. And, you know, I feel like there was this other level of the labor shortage that happened during the crash in around 2008 where a lot of people had to leave the industry because they're just there weren't jobs at the time and they haven't come back.

And so, you know, since then, I feel like there are building booms in different places, but it's just not the kind of thought and culture and innovation that you could see if we had the right folks and more of those right folks. And so, yeah, yeah. And it puts a lot less pride in our neighborhoods and in our cities as well. There's something fundamental about this pride notion as well, like, wow, I built that thing or this is my town or this is the person who built my town.

And so thank you for building my kid's school. Thank you for building the hospital. It's like a pride and gratitude could come back a little bit for the industry. Yeah, yeah, you and I have spoken extensively about that pride piece and wanting almost to make sure that we're building an inclusive and diverse communities that really care about each other. That's a really key piece.

So for those of you who are just chiming in, we are speaking with Diane Eisner. She's the co-founder and CEO of BiCor. And we are talking about all things labor today. What are the challenges that we're facing today? What are what is the cause to the current labor shortage that we are experiencing in the built environment industry?

What does the labor shortage do to impact what we're experiencing itself? And then we're going to be talking a little bit more about this this this network, first of all, that Diane has created. But in addition to that, just what what does inclusion look like? I think in our built environment, how do we continue to foster that? So with that, we're going to jump into a question about what are you seeing as far as solutions go for labor for this labor shortage problem?

I know lots of people are talking about tech like bringing in robotics. They're talking about all sorts of things in order to kind of pick up the the the need. But what are you seeing as far as quote unquote solutions for this labor shortage right now? So I think it's a few things. One, there's going to be a tremendous amount of new jobs, right?

So there's nearly five hundred thousand open positions just this year. And so that's going to attract people that have been hit hard and might be in another industry, maybe lost their jobs. So I feel like just having the knowledge that there's a lot of good jobs coming in, that there are stable jobs, it's going to be one piece. I feel like there's policy decisions that we could be making. I know that more money is being funneled into trade schools, but we've got to get that up and going.

And the trade school of the future, what does it look like? It does have robotics. It does have, you know, LIDAR and automation. And it is much more technical. And, you know, I'm just dreaming about there being enough money to build these schools.

And you can really combine the online and the in-person instruction. So I feel like just more money for trade schools is a big one because we've got to get we've got to get people skilled. Let's see. What else? You mentioned technology.

That itself is going to, I think, make a lot of people who wouldn't consider this industry find it exciting. And then the perception. I really wish that we could have more in the media that is making these folks out to be superheroes. Right. And if it takes an exoskeleton that hardly anybody uses just to kind of get the right image to, you know, why not?

Why aren't we showing people and the light that is we need some positive media images of of our hardworking trades folks. Yeah, that's what I want to see. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. You bring up a really good points about the training and and almost up scaling the training, maybe bringing it up to our times, if you will, utilizing the technology that we have available to us right now, but making investing into those facilities, investing into those programs in order to to make it more exciting.

Right. To your point. And also something that perhaps people who have been in the industry, been trades people for a while where they can get the ability to upskill and and reskill in particular ways so that they can kind of reinvest back into themselves so that they can enter into the market in a maybe different way, especially if they've lost their jobs or considered changing industries and they're still interested in coming back. You know, that that sounds like a really cool opportunity. Yeah, I'm excited.

Even, you know, I'm giving a talk in a couple of weeks. So I live in Palo Alto, which is Silicon Valley. It's all tech like everybody codes from the time they're six years old. And I'm giving they're having a TED TED talk there, TEDx Palo Alto High School, right for the high schoolers. And I'm going in to give a talk about what great jobs there are in construction and why they should consider, you know, non tech jobs in the, you know, in the tech hub.

And, you know, the kids that are organizing it are so excited about this. No one has ever talked to them about these things before. So, you know, we got to get we got to get it out there. Yeah, I've had a similar experience or I've shared about what I what I do, what I've done over the years and just like all of the parts and pieces of what comes together, all the people that come together in order to put together a facility. Oh, my goodness.

It's incredible. Right. One hundred fifty people, ten thousand people. I mean, the numbers are staggering. The complexity is so interesting.

And yeah, I mean, there's another challenge, too, right, which is like, how do you keep track of all that? And that's another situation that the industry has not figured out. How do you coordinate all of those people and, you know, not treat them like numbers because there's so many of them and, you know, just kind of getting getting people organized coordination, communication, all of that. Oh, that is awesome. Yeah, we got a lot.

We got a lot to do. Yes, we do. Well, to ask you directly, what are you doing, Diane? Like, what are you? So tell us a little bit about Bicor.

Tell us about, you know, the actual network platform that you have and how that's helping to pair people with with realistic projects. Yeah. So, you know, we started we launched it in September and it started as a labor marketplace just for construction. It's an app, it's a website. And so it's really matching the people out there with, you know, the workers with the companies.

And, you know, there's a lot of friction in it now. So it's not just that the people aren't there. It's hard to find them. There's so much friction in the process. Recruiting takes a long time.

There's no real good way to build those bridges. And so we spent a lot of time building that up. I think we talked to in person our first 5000 workers, at least maybe eight thousand or something like that. But but our team talked to a lot of people and they are on boarding to figure out how do you get good information? Because it's not like a lot of people have resumes.

And so how do you get the work experience and all of the skills in one place and not just say skills carpentry, but inside of that, how can we be specific? Right. What equipment can you operate? How can you go of that? So just trying to figure out how to get great data into the system was a big piece of it.

And then with the companies as well, how do they do a better job with their job descriptions and their postings to find the right people? And how do you just take out a lot of that friction? So that's what we're doing. But then as we talk to, I think we talked to maybe 50 something GCs personally as well. Never like, OK, yes, labor shortage, super important problem to be solving, but it's disconnected from everything else.

What we really need is a labor management solution. And so actually, we just I don't know if you saw it in construction dive, but we just we just launched the product where it's we're calling it a labor operating system or a labor OS. And it's just trying to bridge building the crews with managing the crews, right, trying to connect the field and the office and making sure that you have one place, whether it's all your subs and trade contractors that are going to be on site, but everybody on site in one place.

And then if there's a gap, then hopefully we're going to be able to fill that with our marketplace as well. So that's what we're doing. Yeah, that's really cool. And I love how you kind of had an initial plan and and and evolved in order to adapt to what the actual needs are. So that LOS, that labor operating system, that sounds really cool.

And it and it will help to identify a lot more clearly like what are those gaps? How do we fill them? And how how does how then do you get now the skilled professionals to really just access that information and be able to take advantage of the marketplace? So yeah, it's cool. It's getting people to put in the right information about what they've done is always super hard, right?

Like that was the first problem. And so now you've got all these people in the system and all the tasks that they've completed are now automatically attached to their profile without them having to do anything. And so nobody has to worry about all that entry, right? It seems like everything we're doing, whether it's for the workers side or the company side, it's about just can we stop filling things out? Just make it simpler.

Like just if we can have a better way to collect the information. And so obviously, we've done a lot of work on the data on the back end side. Our team is kind of I don't know how they've done everything we've done so far. Our team is amazing. Oh, that's awesome.

When you're taking out you're taking out those friction points, like how you said, right? Like you're allowing people to just kind of use the data that already exists about them in the system in order to just reduce the amount of work that it takes in order to to find or find a role to find to find a person in both directions. Super cool. Yeah. Yes, it's really cool.

And, you know, it's funny to me that the way it's been structured is like HR or hiring kind of happens over here and then decisions on project management software and tasks sit over here and they're not blended together. And so we're kind of just, you know, taking over where like Microsoft Project or P6 end off, taking all that information, getting it into our systems. They don't have to double enter it and just giving them very powerful and simple ways to manipulate the data, track the progress of the projects.

And you can't unlink that from the people who are doing the work. It's just not doesn't that was confusing to me that that was there was such a disconnect there. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of times, well, it depends on depends on the company, depends on the people managing the process. But you try to do resource management.

And like you said, like those software tools back, back, back in the day, I used to be a P6 nerd. So, yeah, I at one point in time, yeah, I was managing for one of my clients the program schedule for for all of their projects, all their capital projects, a government client in P6 and resource management was huge, not only just for our internal folks, but also understanding, understanding how the labor ties to what works, not the labor, the cost ties to the labor that we're expecting on site and evaluating.

Is this enough? Right. Should we be having conversations about will we be getting this done on time because of how our contractors have planned out their labor? Is that conversation right? You don't want to you don't want to get into the weeds if you're on the owner's side and ask too much about means and methods.

But all the time we would be asking those kinds of questions. How can we ensure we're planning on meeting this end date kind of thing? So really interesting stuff. I just know. Yeah, no.

And I'm not going to get out. No, because the other thing is it comes down to I'm super excited to know. It comes down to the same things. Right. Like we we don't spend enough time in the field building our technology.

Right. And so it was really cool this time, like being with all the sub form and being in the field. So everybody has a different interface based on what they need and to make it as simple as possible for them. So obviously the project manager needs a desktop version that can manipulate thousands of rows of tasks and people and all of that. And that still has to be simple for them, but powerful.

And in the field, they want something that's as easy to use as messaging. Right. And they deserve it. So it's so much of it just came down to understanding exactly what people wanted to do in the field with what piece of information and just and just giving it to them. That was a cool process.

I like it. I like being in the field. Yeah. I mean, you're looking at you're looking at like who's your who's your end user on the end of the platform and what are they trying to do? Like what simple tasks do they actually need to do?

And how can we help? So, yeah, that's super, super cool. Fascinating. And like a little thing, creating a sub task. Right.

Like that was such a big deal for you. Like, oh, you can create sub tasks so that the forming can get it in this way, but they can like chunk it out there. Like, that's easy to build. Like, that's, you know, that's that was easy. So just I don't know.

It's a cool process about the industry. I only started this company like a year, maybe a year and a half ago, and it's just been constant learning. I feel like I'm still a student. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I love being in the learner's seat when it comes to this industry. I feel like I'm learning every single day. Yeah. So with that, you know, I wanted to I wanted to talk with you about minority representation.

You and I have talked about this a bit and, you know, you you and your partners have been really factoring inclusion and equity into how you're carrying out this business. I mean, you talked about social causes and making sure to kind of address those and how we're thinking about fulfilling the needs for labor. But I mean, what are you what are you looking at around around this and how your how your business is showing up? Yeah, I mean, the diversity issue is really challenging in this industry, isn't it?

And I'm surprised at the under representation of different ethnic groups. So, I mean, I think in a lot of ways, it's the same way in tech, right? Like, it's pretty bad in tech, too. And so people say, oh, well, I don't even believe this is still debate. Well, we don't want to hire people based on their race.

Of course not. But you need to do your outreach and get people into the funnel in a different way. Like, who are you inviting to apply? Who are you inviting to come get skilled? And we just have to make sure that it's equitable even from that side.

So even when we're out recruiting, I mean, it's just a small thing. But, you know, we made sure that we were in Spanish from the very beginning because we don't want to exclude people. So we're in English, Spanish and Portuguese. And we'll keep doing more because, you know, we there are great people out there. We just have to make sure that that they can be, you know, welcomed to the party, so to speak.

Right. It doesn't mean anyone is going to hire them because of that. But we want to make sure that we're welcoming. So that's how it shows up for us, just even on the on the recruiting side. But then, you know, I hate to keep going back to culture.

It's really hard for people on the job site, too, if they're, you know, there is a lot of overt racism. Right. I think it's really cool what Turner did to, like, stop the stop projects, actually, when racial incidents occur. And that took a lot of bravery for a corporate, you know, because there is money lost there and stopping a project. And I like that.

So you have these kind of role models as well. They'll just keep getting more normal. And then what you're going to have is that if you don't have a welcoming environment, you're going to lose money because projects are going to stop. And that's when it really starts to take hold, I think. Yeah, yeah, those are really great examples.

I mean, language, I think there's there's it kind of comes back around to the training, too. Like train it. There's there's a addressing people who people who need to be included by making sure that the language that they speak in is available for them to understand the information you're trying to share. But there's there's the other layer of if there's a if there's a training gap or if there's a translation gap, which sometimes people perceive them as the same, which they're not distinguishing those two things as they really are, I perhaps perhaps there's there's that piece, too.

Right. Because that's a really good point. You know, I mean, you know, I think and I'm not trying to solution in any way because, you know, I'm at this point, I'm not qualified to do that, but I'm just really interested in and what are the what are the opportunities? Right. Like just I feel as though there's so much to be done to address this issue.

And I so much appreciate what you're already doing. But to your point, it's about looking to those. Really great role models who are doing doing things right when it comes to what when something is going on that's wrong. Yeah, right. You stop, you address it, you have a conversation, you have a difficult conversation about it and you really try.

And, you know, I think one thing I'd be curious as to your opinion about this. There's a lot of opportunity for for training the corporates to just address these conversations, you know, and providing an opportunity for that culture. You know, I have a friend who provides trainings like this to, you know, to organizations that that are mostly primarily law firms. And, you know, we have this kind of conversation all the time that lots of people don't even know how to create that culture for these conversations to be had in the first place.

So just curious as to your thoughts on those things. Well, I guess I'll give the Google example on that one again, because I know it really well. You know, when I first got to Google, you know, I came from this crazy startup, right? Waze at that time, it was, you know, we built it from nothing. You know, we didn't have time to do trainings and things like we just didn't.

You know, we were running so fast as a startup. And then we got to Google and was like, all right, training, training, training, training, training. And then you get to the anti-bias training. And you're like, oh, wow. Oh, I'm biased.

You get to see your own biases as you take them because you think, oh, I don't have like and then you you understand deeper what it can be. Right. Is it age bias or is it racial bias or where is the bias? But we all have it. And I think that's a really good entryway into that conversation.

And then it's like, all right, how do you fix it? But I think even just starting to take some of what those tools were and that training was there and getting it out, you know, into the world. I think it had a really good impact, really positive impact on our team. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I think we don't have these kind of conversations enough in this particular industry.

And when I think about the labor shortage, oftentimes I say, man, there's a market that's not even tapped into to your point about like you're going to a school sharing about like, hey, this is what we do in the built environment industry, this is what we do in construction. There's just a whole there's quite a few demographics that don't even see construction as an opportunity. Yeah, because they don't see people in their families, you know, actually, you know, carrying out these roles. So, you know, it's just it's an opportunity for us to think about.

And I really love I love the approach that you're already taking and the fact that you're thinking about this. Yeah, and we can all do like the little bits as well. Right. Like I made my son construction last summer. That was when he was 16.

Now he's 17. I was like, what do you want to do this summer? He wants to do construction. Nice. Good.

Well, there's one that we didn't get to talk about. We have and it's just something that you and I have talked about in the past, which is long term incentives inside of these bigger companies. That's another way that they can be role models. Right. Is we tend to think of whether it's our skill trades or laborers in construction or whether it's the truck drivers and the big trucking companies as, you know, even if they're full time, like hourly workers.

And, you know, one of the most compelling things about technology is that you're actually, you know, you get stock options. You have some skin in the game. Right. It's there. There's cops and all of that.

And, you know, I know that construction companies have started to do that for their staff positions, you know, at least some key staff positions, but what could it look like if we had long term incentives for our workers? And I can't wait to see which company is going to lead that conversation, because I feel like it's really important. And, you know, you and I came up together with this really great idea of like a worker investment trust. Right. So it's not just, you know, we have REITs for the real estate side where investors will make money.

Is there a moment where, you know, that small amounts of money coming into this pool, if you stay on a project for long enough, some of it's, you know, allocated to the workers and and over time it's like they vest like you would as a stock option. But there's these other other opportunities. So I don't think we have to take things that already exist. That might be the easiest. But we need to do something about long term incentives and sharing it with the workforce.

Yeah, completely. 100 percent agree to make people running to the industry. Right. Because then there's an opportunity to think about how do I create wealth for myself and my families? Right.

Like this is not only do I get an amazing job that is stable. Right. And I get to learn new skills every day because everybody 100 percent is learning every single day when you enter into this industry. But if you get stock options, you can build wealth for your family. I mean, what's better than that?

I think that sometimes those things are overlooked when we when you think about that, I mean, that's part of the reason why unions exist, because there's a need to support laborers, laborers. Like and it's a matter of making sure that their rights are really acknowledged. And so if you provide these incentives to your point, there there's just a desire now, more of a desire to really carry out these roles, which makes complete sense in theory and to you. And right. And it's a turnover.

I mean, if you look at the costs associated with the labor shortage and the high turnover rate, and then you think about how small, how much less it would cost to give people long term incentives in their projects or in their companies, come on. It's even like economically, it just. Yeah, yeah, totally agree, Diane. But yeah, curious as to who will who will spearhead that idea. I'd love to see that carried out for sure.

So with that, you know, we've been talking with Diane about labor from all different perspectives, her solution at BICORP to to really help pair up trade skill skilled tradespeople with with contractors, with general contractors in order to work on projects, you know, there's just one small way to make a dent on this big problem that we have to really fulfill the need in the larger labor shortage problem that we have. But there's what I'm what I'm hearing from Diane and I'm happy to hear is that there is a change of perspective that she sees.

And I see it, too, that this industry is really cool. We are doing some friggin amazing things using technology and really wanting to drive that perception and and care more about social change. Yeah. And and inclusion and all of all of the great stuff. So, Diane, I just really appreciate you and this conversation that we've we've gone through.

Is there anything that you want to share that we did not cover? No, the one thing we didn't cover was was the thing about the how are we going to have long term incentive plans for our workers? I would love someone to take that on. And if anyone else has ideas, too, I think both you and I want to hear them. Brittany, Brittany, right?

Yeah, exactly. We do. So those who are online pop a note in the chat, say I'm interested and respond to you. And if not, shoot me a DM on whichever platform you're watching this on. Happy to happy to hear from you, Diane.

How can someone who's watching this live stream either now or when they watch it recorded, how might they reach out to you if they want to learn more about what you're doing at Bicor? So if they go to cruise dot by core dot com, they're going to see the whole labor solution that we just launched. So that's it. And then ways to contact us are just all over the page and get a demo. You can just shoot a question and then it's very easy to get to me, too.

You know, we're a whopping team of nine people. So, yeah. Excellent, excellent. So continue to enjoy the warm weather, Diane. This has been an awesome conversation.

I really appreciate you and the time that you spent just sharing with the constructor audience. Thank you so much. Thank you, Brittany. This has been great. Bye.